I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

KENDALL CONCINI - Silent Reflux, PPD & Cloudy Days

• Episode 74

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 57:14

Send us Fan Mail

On today's episode, we're sitting down with Kendall Concini-Moore, a perinatal mental health advocate who will tell you that she never wanted to be a mother until she did. When she changed her mind, Kendall and her husband made a plan. They knew that with her mental health history, postpartum depression was a real possibility, and they made sure that supports were in place before ever trying to conceive. They did everything right, and it was still incredibly hard. Today, we'll hear about pregnancy loss, an early birth, a baby with silent reflux, a pandemic, and a version of motherhood that looked nothing like what she planned for. We'll talk about what it's like to prepare for something and still be leveled by it and how she found her way through anyway. Oh, and she wrote a children's book that helps kids understand what it looks like when mom is struggling with depression. So of course, we'll drop a link to that in the show notes as always. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend, Kendall.


Mentioned on today's episode:

Interested in sharing your story?
Fill out our podcast interest form here!

Questions about the I AM ONE Podcast?
Email Dani Giddens - dani@postpartum.net

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Connect by PSI - Download PSI's New App!
Apple Version
Android Version

Visit PSI's website: https://www.postpartum.net
Find free resources & info on certification, training, and other incredible programs!

Call or text 'HELP' to the PSI Helpline: 1-800-944-4773
Not feeling like yourself? Looking for some support? You never need a diagnosis to ask for help.

National Maternal Mental Health Hotline (U.S. only): 1-833-852-6262
Free and confidential Hotline for parents, providers & support people in English and Spanish.

Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S. & Canada): 988
Free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for pro...

Dani:

Welcome to the I Am One podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with Kendall Concini-Moore, a perinatal mental health advocate who will tell you that she never wanted to be a mother until she did. When she changed her mind, Kendall and her husband made a plan. They knew that with her mental health history, postpartum depression was a real possibility, and they made sure that supports were in place before ever trying to conceive. They did everything right, and it was still incredibly hard. Today, we'll hear about pregnancy loss, an early birth, a baby with silent reflux, a pandemic, and a version of motherhood that looked nothing like what she planned for. We'll talk about what it's like to prepare for something and still be leveled by it and how she found her way through anyway. Oh, and she wrote a children's book that helps kids understand what it looks like when mom is struggling with depression. So of course, we'll drop a link to that in the show notes as always. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend, Kendall. Kendall, welcome to the podcast studio. We are amped to be here with you today. We are excited to hear all about your lived experience and get personal. So thank you so much for being here.

Kendall:

Thanks for having me. I am amped, too. That's a better word than excited.

Dani:

Yes, I've got to find some synonyms. I can't say the same exact thing. I mean, I am amped. I'm feeling good.

Emily:

I think that's a good word choice.

Dani:

Kendall, can you give us and everybody listening a little bit of an introduction to who you are?

Kendall:

Yes, I have not changed my introduction ever because I love it. I start with mental health advocate, mother, author. It is just the entire timeline journey in three little tags of my life.

Emily:

I love it. Okay. Do you have a favorite pizza topping? Like, what else do we need to say? Like, what do you want the people to know?

Kendall:

It's been really interesting on my whole journey. I guess like just leading and going, hey, I have depression, because you don't normally say stuff like that, and I'm an extrovert. I'm a planner, I loved themed parties, I'm the one who does all of our social outings. Oh, I'm very, very talkative and so it's been an interesting journey where behind all that when i'm doing podcasts and sharing my life and I'm like, yeah this is all of my struggles, everyone's like, what? And like it's good. It's really good that you see all of the fun adjectives of my life and not the behind the scene adjectives. But I also need to share those so people start to understand how much effort it is to do all that when you're also dealing with all of this. And so I am very outgoing, adventurous. Mushrooms is my favorite pizza topping.

Dani:

Oh, yes. Finally, somebody on my team. I love mushrooms on a pizza. I'm sad when they're not there. And Kendall, I have a follow-up question. What if they're canned mushrooms? Are you upset?

Kendall:

No.

Dani:

Oh, never mind. It's just me.

Kendall:

Fresh mushrooms aren't always on sale. And I'm like, okay.

Dani:

Yeah.

Kendall:

We're going to the can.

Dani:

Yeah. Okay. If we must.

Emily:

It's like better mushrooms than no mushrooms.

Kendall:

And pineapple too.

Emily:

Yes!

Dani:

Wait a second. Hold on. Pause the podcast episode. Just kidding. Wait a second. Wait, hang on. Mushrooms and pineapple?

Kendall:

Sure.

Dani:

On the same pizza? Sure?

Kendall:

That's in everything, right?

Dani:

Controversial.

Emily:

That is everything. That's cool.

Dani:

I'm just, I have no further questions. I don't even know... I don't even have any podcast questions. My brain is blown.

Emily:

I do.

Dani:

Emily, hit it.

Emily:

So what role have perinatal mental health disorders played in your life? Personally, professionally, take us on a journey. It was a dark and stormy night. Go.

Dani:

Ready? Go.

Kendall:

I never thought I was going to have kids. Postpartum depression like terrified me. I was someone who I already had depression and I was like, you hear the horror stories of it all. I'm going to get that. There's no way it's not going to be prevalent. I'm going to second guess every single thing that happens. And I, at the time, I didn't really know of like the perinatal, like the pre and I just thought I miserably hated being pregnant and stuff. And that was part of it. But later learning the language and been like, okay, here's how I could have set up everything. And in a way I did that. We had fostered for a very long time and I saw–

Dani:

Oh, interesting. I didn't know that.

Emily:

Wow.

Kendall:

I knew that when we got married, I did not want kids. I had kind of a little broken family trauma. I had depression, I had mental health struggles. And I was like, I don't know how to to break that cycle and get out of that and not mess up a child. And so when my husband and I were dating, I was like, just so you know, like, I don't want kids. And he was okay with that. But I knew he had so much love to give. And so my compromise was I was like, hey, I signed us up for volunteering for Special Olympics. And then when we did that, and we loved our community, I said, I found this organization to start fostering kids as respite. So weekend help and support. And it was this organization that worked with families before the kids got taken. So I have to focus on something in my life. We had kids whose parents had depression and would like text us and be like, I can't get out of bed today. Can you take the kid for the weekend? And we were the family that wrapped around them.

Dani:

Wow. That's a cool program.

Kendall:

I loved it. And it was kind of that, it was realizing that like we are taking this kid because someone else is struggling and it's fine. Like, I'm stepping up to the plate for that and recognizing I can have a kid and I can ask that of my group. And so one Christmas, we were doing our Christmas gifts. And the last gift I gave my husband like ovulation and pregnancy strips. And he was like, what is this? And I was like, I want to start trying. Like, I know I said no kids whatsoever. And then we also had to be very mindful of how we told people we were pregnant because I had been so adamant no kids forever. I was like, I want to to make it clear that I made the decision. And this wasn't- like my mom very much thought my husband, like, knocked me up accidentally or something. And she's like, are you sure you wanted to be pregnant? I was like, yes.

Dani:

Because you were so vocal about having an opinion that was like unexpected, I guess, socially, right?

Kendall:

Yes. But we prepared. So I gave him the strips and the kit, But I also gave him like this little appointment card. And I said, this is my therapist. I'm going to go see her to talk about preparing for postpartum depression because I know it's going to happen. I know I'm not going to enjoy the pregnancy journey. I had body dysmorphia issues. I had health issues. I was like, it's going to make me uncomfortable to become pregnant. I have sensory. So I was like, I didn't want to feel it in my belly.

Dani:

Oh, interesting.

Kendall:

I had prepared everything. And so that was part of it is like I started going to therapy. I started talking about the worst case scenarios of everything. And then it happened. We had a miscarriage. It was, for me, very traumatic because I had known my health baseline. I had advocated over and over again to my OBGYN that something felt off, that things were going on. This is like sort of the beginning of like COVID. And so they weren't taking it serious compared to what they were dealing with. And when I went in, we found out, you know, our appointment got pushed, the eight weeks. They said, you can't come in right now because everything had closed. And I was like, but something is off. And we went in at 12 weeks. She was just like, yeah, it's not there. She said it horribly.

Dani:

Oh.

Kendall:

I have twins in my family.

Kendall: And so I was like, maybe it's two because I feel so miserable and she just goes:

it's not two, it's

Kendall:

not even one, and that was the way she told me and I was like, what? And she's like, yeah, no, you lost the heartbeat. And then I had to take the pill at home and they didn't prepare me for anything, it was just take this, it'll pass in a few hours, and you'll be fine, and it was a very traumatic experience. So because COVID was happening, we were home. We had set up the nursery. We were at like 12 weeks. We thought we were past the safe kind of mark. And then in my head, it was, I didn't know whether to like pause and grieve or I was like, let's like do it again. Literally, like, I need the baby we thought was here. And so when we got pregnant again, I didn't enjoy the pregnancy experience for the normal what I thought was going to like ick me. But then it was also just this, which now is the perinatal terror of like, I don't want to enjoy this pregnancy and something happens. And so every step was like, the baby's moving. You're like, is that supposed to happen? Is it? And then she would stop moving. And I was like, is that supposed to happen? And it was just this constant ball of like, I'm not glowing. I'm constantly terrified.

Emily:

Right.

Dani:

Yeah.

Kendall:

She came early, which to me was just like, yes, let's, like, get out. Like, God send, let's hit that finish line early. And she came with her own like health stuff, which then was this internal like depression was just like I caused this. I made it wrong. I did everything.

Dani:

Oh no.

Kendall:

Yeah. She was born with a tongue tie, which a very bad dentist like botched and tried to have her latch immediately to soothe, which we found out was a bad idea. And so she was like traumatized by my breasts and body. And whenever I would try to hold her, she would just lose her mind. It took like six months of us trying different things till they finally figured out she had like silent reflux and she was uncomfortable. So they put her on meds and she was a complete different baby. Yes? Hands up.

Dani:

Ooh, ooh, pick me. Tell me about silent reflux.

Kendall:

It was similar to colic, but it was always around like eating. So I had looked up stuff and I was like, they didn't say it was reflux because she wasn't throwing up and she wasn't like making choking or anything. But I would always say like when she eats, she arches really weird when she eats. And I didn't know, like in my head it was just she didn't like my breasts. So she's like, ew, but I was like, she arches really weird. Finally, our pediatrician was like, well, that could be silent reflux where she is having the normal like throw up and discomfort, but she's not projecting anything so you can't tell because it doesn't follow the normal reflux.

Emily:

It's like it's coming up–

Kendall:

Yeah.

Emily:

it hurts but it's not coming out

Kendall:

Yeah. And so they were like, let's just try reflux meds. So they tried it, finally, and it was like night and day. And even the doctor was like, she's more pleasant, and I was like, yes, she is.

Dani:

She probably feels a lot better. I'd never heard of silent reflex until just now.

Kendall:

Yeah.

Dani:

New vocab word of the day.

Emily:

Well, there you go.

Dani:

It's so difficult because babies can't tell us what's wrong. This is your first time trying to nurse a newborn. You're like, what does this arch mean? Is this like a...

Emily:

Is it me?

Kendall:

Yeah.

Dani:

It's like a bad game of charades.

Kendall:

And her comfort for it was you couldn't hold her up on your chest. There was never that like, oh, cute baby, hugs. She had a little hernia too, which was a whole part of it. And she had this like outie belly button, which was like this big, just sticking out. And it's fantastic because we would share pictures and people would act like we didn't see it. They'd be like, do you know her belly button looks not normal?

Dani:

Oh my gosh, I've never even noticed it.

Kendall:

Yeah, like, even holding her, I never felt that it's like an inch out. Thanks for telling me, stranger. But you had to hold her on your arm for pressure and like bop her like upside down. Like you couldn't even look at her. It was like head down. That was her comfort. So the problem with all of it in the postpartum journey was that blame of myself. So when I was pregnant too, and we're home and it's COVID hit. So we're home, I had a home elliptical and I was constantly on the elliptical moving. And when she came, I would put her- like try and put her on the thing and move and everyone would say like, oh, yeah, that's because mom was always moving. That's what she wants. And I was like, I don't need that blame. Like I did not cause this like hernia pain from me being on the elliptical. But at the time it sat and I was like, oh my God, is that how like pregnancy and babies work? Like you imprint.

Dani:

You were like outwardly rejecting it, but inside you were like, but seriously, was it me? It probably was. No. This is like unsolicited, not medical opinion. Sorry, everybody. Not sorry.

Kendall:

And then nobody wanted to take her. Like nobody wants to stand there and have to, like, bop this baby and not hug them and go, oh, give me the newborn. Let me hold her. So we couldn't hand her off to people. They'd be like, this is tiring. And I was like, yeah, imagine me being here all day doing it. Thanks for stepping up to the plate.

Emily:

The respite that you gave others, like no one was there for you.

Kendall:

Then admittedly, the worst part was because she was like the after miscarriage baby. If I would start to say, this is hard. I need time away. It was like, but you had your baby. And I was like, I appreciate that I had a successful baby. That doesn't mean she came out the most perfect baby in the world who is easy as pie and everything is literally sunshine and rainbows. Rainbow baby is a term, not like I have to enjoy every single moment.

Emily:

Yeah. She doesn't have rainbows coming out of her teeny tiny little butt. Okay?

Kendall:

It was so hard to share with people. I remember so vividly, like my husband walking in the house and I am on the floor in front of the couch and she is behind me on the little Boppy, like secure, but she's crying and I am just crying. And he knew, he was like, do you need me to tag in? And I was like, yes.

Dani:

Oh yeah.

Kendall:

And he asked, he was like, did you text people? And I was like, I tried, like I texted family and I was like, I just need an hour, But I kind of got the, like, but it's your day with your baby. And I was like, it's all day with my baby. Just give me an hour.

Dani:

All day, every day.

Kendall:

So postpartum was like my whole experience. And my daughter knows too. Like she's four now- well, she's five now.

Dani:

Oh!

Emily:

That's rude.

Kendall:

She just turned it and we are seeing people this week we haven't seen on her birthday week. And she goes, do I look five? And it's so cute.

Dani:

Just polling the audience. Do I look five now? Because last week, not so much. But I'm feeling very five right now.

Kendall:

And we did that cute parent trick where like we had marked on the wall a little lower when she was four because we measure them at five. So I was like, let's mark it this week because next week. And so she got to see a change.

Dani:

Oh, my gosh. So I have questions about that. Just processing that kind of a big period of time. You've experienced a miscarriage. And it sounds like pretty soon after the miscarriage, you were able to– you conceived again. That was your daughter who was born and healthy and happy now. But that was a really challenging period of time. How did processing all of that go? Like you were mentioning your husband came home, you're on the floor crying, the baby's crying, everybody's crying.

Emily:

As we all do, I think.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

At least at one point.

Dani:

You were not the only person to ever be crying on the floor. But it feels so lonely. You tried to reach out.

Emily:

You literally did the thing that we tell people to do.

Dani:

You reached out to people who you know. So what was it like getting support? Was it months or years later? Or you mentioned earlier that you had a therapist.

Kendall:

Yeah.

Dani:

Tell us all the things or whatever you want to tell us. Not all the things. Whatever.

Emily:

Oh, I want to know it all.

Dani:

This is your episode, Kendall.

Kendall:

It's so mixed because it was a hard time and COVID happened. And I feel like in some respect, I'm a little different from people in the early parts because COVID was very isolating for people in postpartum. For me, it was helpful because then my husband was home and I didn't have to go fake it during work because we were working from home and I'd be in meetings and I can cry and pop on a call and be fine and then get off and deal with it. We had friends who like do live far as we don't see them in a while, but because everything pushed from COVID, everyone was online a lot. So I felt like I had a little bit more around me because of COVID. But that's me. I'm lucky I had that support system where some other people had like a more isolating experience. But then when it started to sort of open up- and I frame it in this way, because with my son, I had expected postpartum to happen. I was like, let's gear up. That's where like my book language came from, how to talk to my daughter about mom's going to be on the floor crying. But I wasn't because we were able to shift our environment a lot more and like get up and leave. At home, we would like go outside if something's chaotic.

Dani:

Yeah.

Kendall:

And also admit that we needed to walk away, like, she's safe, she's secure, she's in a crib, she's screaming. We have the camera on her, but we need to go outside and turn the volume off and just make sure she doesn't roll over and then come back in.

Dani:

Yes.

Kendall:

So it was a lot of that. I was very open about not being okay through a lot of it. And with that, it was emotional because some friends are okay hearing that and supportive. And some just suddenly are busy and you don't hear from them anymore because all you do is say the negative stuff. It was just a lot of learning curve and that felt really messy. And when people are like, how did you make it through? I was like, I don't know. Like, we had to. We did lean into it too. One thing we had, and I'll have to like share it and tag you. We made baby calendars. And so the first year we did like each month where we would put her into like, my husband has this weird skill that emerged that is blanket art. And he made this blanket art.

Dani:

Oh!

Kendall:

Yes.

Emily:

Like that woman who makes the blanket on the floor and it's like a whole scene?

Kendall:

Yes.

Emily:

Oh, wow.

Dani:

Oh, Kendall, share.

Kendall:

Because when she would be screaming and crying, we would just like build the scene to that. Like there's one where he made a whole T-Rex out of a blanket and he like laid down and he makes it look like they're running away and she's screaming.

Emily:

That's so clever.

Kendall:

And we made a like little book for her out of it. We called it Alma's Adventures and we show everything we did with her. But we do talk to her about like, you just wouldn't stop screaming. So the story was we were running from a dinosaur.

Emily:

The fact that you're able to model that is just like so fantastic to me. Like it was a very hard day and we found a way to bond with you and make it fun. That's so wild. I love it.

Kendall:

You see those posts where people like, they're like, why is my kid crying today? I wouldn't let her eat batteries. And like, those were fun. And those were always like in my head.

Emily:

I have seen those.

Kendall:

So it was kind of just embracing that we were not enjoying it. And well, like, eventually it will stop, right?

Dani:

How long did that last?

Kendall:

She was hard for six months. Until we got those reflux meds, it was just guess and check of everything. A big part of it, too, is I was really hard on myself about- I never wanted to nurse. I was exclusively pumping, but occasionally the milk stopped. So they would be like, put her on. So I did with my first, I held on to that way too long. I recognized what was going on. I just needed to stop. We had the formula. We sort of went a little bit through the formula shortage so I was like, I need to pump, I need to do this. At my time too though, the nice thing about my daughter she was kind of like- I would go on Facebook marketplace and moms would buy formula and their babies wouldn't take to it and they would have like boxes so I would either like buy it cheaper or like pick it up and be like, free formula? Sure, she eats anything. As long as it's not mom she's like it's delicious.

Emily:

Like, reflux meds, she'll eat anything.

Dani:

Yeah.

Kendall:

As long as it wasn't mom, she was eating it.

Dani:

Oh. She was having a hard time. You were having a hard time. She couldn't tell you. She could not articulate as no baby can.

Emily:

Which is very rude of babies, I think. Like, it would be so much more helpful if they came with a manual and, like, full communication skills and self-awareness.

Kendall:

Yeah.

Dani:

Check my back. Here's the error code. You could reference the manual. You'll know what's wrong.

Emily:

That'd be so handy.

Dani:

And it's hard for you as a parent to not know what the thing was that was going wrong. It's like everybody's having a hard time.

Kendall:

And I don't love when you're like in something hard and they're like, wait till she's a toddler. And I was like, why are we just waiting for the next like, this is going to be awful. But at least when she was a toddler, I knew. Like if I gave her something and she threw it, like, yeah, that's frustrating. But at least I know she doesn't want to eat that food. Like as a baby, the guess and check is just miserable. And people are like, don't you miss the newborn? And I was like, no, I'd rather take her like telling me life is awful because this and know that it's like just her being dramatic versus just all the time drama.

Emily:

And being like, is it drama or are you injured? Like...

Kendall:

Exactly.

Dani:

It probably felt to you like it was drama. Yeah. But it was like babies just aren't dramatic to be dramatic. It's like she just couldn't tell you. Right?

Kendall:

Yeah. Now with my son, again, it was just– it was almost like this like postpartum checklist in my head where I was like, OK, everything I went through, like she wouldn't eat. That made me miserable. She wouldn't sit still. That made me miserable. So when my son came, it was- and I had this like amazing quote on another podcast where I said it was like battle. Here's my battle plan.

Emily:

Yes. You were ready to roll.

Kendall:

I was. I pre-bought formula because I told my husband like, all right, the baby's due in like, what's the formula expiration date? Like, the baby's due in a month. I'm going to go buy formula in bulk. So the second this time they remotely eat hard, I am switching. Like, I'm not pumping. I'm not doing that. And so that's what we did. So I had to tell myself like, well, we already spent money at this time. Last time we did- it did work out. We got so much free formula from people like on groups kind of saying my baby didn't like this, I was like give it here. So this time I was like, I'm gonna spend money, because last time it was like this mentality of like, well I'll try milk and it's there. So we did that and then with the movement based stuff I was like, I'm buying a fancy carrier and if I have to move this baby constantly, I'm getting the upgraded one and I'm getting the jogging, like, stroller.

Emily:

Like this carrier has built in air conditioning, right?

Dani:

Like if we're going to be upset, then I guess we'll at least have the ability to go on a walk that may or may not turn into a jog. Who knows? Let's not limit ourselves, but we'll get outside.

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

Kendall, that's working smarter, not harder.

Kendall:

It's also what you give up on. Like, it is those tropes, like second baby, I think the nook fell and I was like, wipe it off in your shirt.

Dani:

Oh, gosh. Oh, yes. Wait a second. For the second baby, you did not sterilize the pacifier that fell on the floor? That was definitely just a first baby for me, like the first week. And then I was like, nobody has time for this, right? We're like- we're not... No.

Kendall:

Yeah. I tracked a lot less, too. Like I had the apps with the like, she ate now. What's the time? And the phone would go off. And I was like, they'll let me know when they're hungry. I learned from her. She does that. And so that too, it was easier. But the first one was just you think everything you're doing is like a choice you made that's wrong.

Dani:

It sounds like anxiety was much lower second time around.

Kendall:

Yeah. And my daughter was there. So there was like it removed part of that isolation. And then it would be little things, like she was amazing with it because as an adult, when like he would start crying and you kind of go through all those like, oh, no, what did I do? Guess and check. She would just be like, oh, baby. And it would remind you like, OK, let's just see the cuteness in this. And then I'd be like, you want to feed him while you're there? And she loved holding the bottle.

Dani:

Here's a bottle. The bottle's here. You're here. He's here. You know, it would be really fun? Is if you fed him.

Emily:

That is so interesting, though. Like, we as adults are like, okay, this is a signal, the crying or the fussing or whatever, like the arching the back. These are all signals that there's a problem. So I'm going to go through, like, the how do I find the solution checklist. Instinctively, she wasn't operating that way. She was just like, oh. And it's like, I could do that. Like, sometimes I need the Rolodex. I want to know what's wrong. I need the solution. Like, I need five minutes of quiet, okay? But other times it's like, maybe I don't need the solution, right? It's so funny that she, like, kind of modeled that. I mean, I think kids model all kinds of things that we go, I want to do it that way.

Dani:

Sometimes something like that's a nice little distraction, too, because you might have been, like, oh, my gosh, like, kind of internally freaking out, you know, about insert anything that's going on with the baby. But sometimes kids have a way of, like older kids have a way of like distracting, and what might initially feel kind of like a big deal to us or to the baby or something suddenly isn't because it's like she's just making little faces at him.

Kendall:

Yeah, it was easier. But I recognize now there was like this element of almost like PTSD because my sister-in-law had a baby and the baby was here and we were out somewhere and she was like, oh, do you want to feed her? And I was like, no, no, like I can't. Like I'm not going- I made it out, I'm not going backwards. And so my daughter, she's like in her doll phase. So she loves little babies. Now, like if she asks me to play with her dolls, I will. But when we go somewhere, she'll tell me, like, friends. She's like, mom, hold the baby so I can hold it. And I was like, no, go get dad to do that. Like, mom is over her baby phase and era. She asked me one day if I was going to have a third kid. And I was like, I know you're four, but I'm going to tell you like I am snipped. And she's like, what? And I was like, we all have two girls and mom doesn't. I was like trying to just be like, no, we're done.

Dani:

I don't know if it's okay to ask. Was that like, do you have like your tubes tied or what?

Kendall:

It's actually my husband who got snipped for me. But I was like, I'm not going to go into telling her.

Dani:

Yes.

Kendall:

I was like, oh, we'll talk some things when you're older. It's actually dad, but I told her mom.

Dani:

I know. I was like, wait a second. What did you snip though? Okay.

Kendall:

I wanted to. I have people I know that like they got their tubes tied and it didn't work. And I have people who had vasectomies and it failed. So my thing was like, I wanted to do both. I want it to just- like, we're both covered. It is so hard as a woman to get your tubes tied. My husband walked into the appointment and said, I need to do this. And they said, wait 20 minutes and we'll do it.

Dani:

Whoa.

Kendall:

I went to two OBGYNs. They couldn't do it at the hospital I delivered because, well, they were a Catholic hospital. And usually my OBGYN would do it at like their office clinic, but they had moved into the hospital space. So they were like, we can't do it. So I was like, I get that. So they referred me to another place. But if you don't do it during like an emergency C-section, it's elective. And when it's elective, you have to do three appointments to make sure that's what you want to do. And if you have a husband, we welcome you to bring him to an appointment to make sure that's what you both want to do.

Dani:

Oh, that's so interesting. But he could walk in...?

Emily:

And walk out with a vasectomy?

Kendall: Yeah. No:

I'm married. Does my wife need to know about this?

Emily:

I'm trying to not like...

Dani:

I need to mute my audio track real quick.

Kendall:

So, I mean, I told him, well, I'll get it, like, I'll get it done right away when I'm in the recovery, because I'll be down and out. And that way it won't be like extra time off of volleyball and stuff. So I got off the phone and I said, they want me to do three appointments and told me to invite you. And he was like, I'll get a vasectomy. And I was like, yes, you will.

Dani:

Yes.

Emily:

Good answer. Okay. At what point in all of this did you get diagnosed? Did you get diagnosed?

Kendall:

I got diagnosed in like college. I got diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and depression. And the problem at the time was then it was unknown that I had an autoimmune issue. We didn't find out until after my son. And so when I had generalized anxiety, a lot of the solutions was medication and I would respond horribly to all medications. So I could never take anything. I got like all the side effects. Some were like worse. So I kind of took it as the devil I know is just dealing with anxiety and depression. And I don't know what happens when you go on meds and the reactions. So I did a lot of talk therapy and stuff throughout the years. When I had my daughter and I was with that therapist specifically for like, let's deal with postpartum depression and body dysmorphia with eating disorders. She was like, this doesn't sound like anxiety it sounds like ADHD with a hyper focus. And so she started doing tests and support for ADHD and that clicked so much more than what I had been doing for anxiety, which kind of falls in all of it but it was like, wow these tools are hitting a lot harder. I told her I can't do meds, because at that point we had figured out I'm gonna react And so we didn't turn towards ADHD meds. We turned towards just like workbooks and stuff and the dialectic behavior therapy.

Emily:

Yeah.

Kendall:

I got diagnosed younger, but it shifted when I was older.

Dani:

It's really interesting the things we end up like learning about ourselves after becoming parents.

Emily:

It's like the big life change of becoming a parent makes other things sort of shift a little bit.

Kendall:

And now I have had this experience because when I knew those are my diagnoses, when we knew we were pregnant, when I thought it was going to go through another worst case scenario with my son, I had started to talk about it with my daughter. I was using the analogy of the cloud to say, mom has a cloud and I have shade and you're in the sunshine and it feels different. And I had a cloud pillow at home that it would hold to show I'm just going through a hard time. It's not you. It's not your brother. It's not your dad. I'm going through a hard time. We would talk about it every night as a bedtime story. And that's what we turned into this book to create kind of the platform around having a cloudy day. Someone asked me because I said like one of my like crowning achievements, like it was never sales or anything. It was my daughter kind of understanding that mom needs to tag out sometimes and dad's going to take over and that is okay.

Dani:

Yes.

Emily:

Yes.

Kendall:

And she identified her emotions as a tornado.

Dani:

Your daughter?

Kendall:

Yes.

Dani:

Oh, cool.

Kendall:

And I love it. I actually like out of courage, I did apply for like a local TED talk today. And, you know, even if I don't get it, I'm just like, I did it. Like, it's brave.

Dani:

Yes, it is.

Kendall:

My like whole little 60 second pitch is about one day my husband was heading home and I texted him. I said, Alma is screaming and throwing stuff. Go with it. She called it a tornado. And like, that was it. He didn't come in and was like, she needs to stop or anything. He was just like, you know, where did it touch down?

Dani:

Oh.

Kendall:

I was like, I don't know what happened. It just started in the sunroom. She came in. She had already had a little bit of ways of telling us her emotions, but she was like, I don't think it's a cloud. Because I said, is it a storm cloud she goes, no it's a tornado, and then she said, can I go back and like scream and I was like yes. We didn't talk about it with her then, we just slowly helped her clean up and then we told her when she's ready we can talk about it and now that's what we kind of do. And when she's having a really hard time and I'm like, girl what's going on? She's like, I think it's a tornado, and I was like, I do too, but we wait for her to say it. And someone had asked me if I felt in a way that I was like self-fulfilling prophecy, that I'm all like mental health and this is depression and this is ADHD. And like, I gave my daughter, like, maybe I have this. And I was like, no, like, she has it. Dad has ADHD. I have ADHD. I see her mannerisms. I recognize them as signs that were not recognized when I was younger. I recognized struggles that were ignored when I was younger. If I label her early and later they tell me that she's not, great. But I'm not going to pretend that she's nothing now and that we're not going to surround her and help her with it. And so that was a big part of looking at like, yes, mom went through all of these hard stuff. And when we read the books, I tell kids, like, parents go through a lot and we just want you to know that there is a lot going on in our lives that we're dealing with that aren't your fault. And that was how we had to prepare. So I was like, I don't know if postpartum is going to hit and she's going to think I don't like her brother.

Emily:

That's like, I think that's so wise. I love the metaphor. I think it's like it's so accessible. And like kids learn the weather in preschool, like they get it. They get it from the beginning and no one can control the weather. Makes perfect sense, right? And then on top of it, it's like you're giving these tools that it's like if you're dysregulated, that's something that's happening for you. You're not like choosing to disobey. You're not choosing to create chaos or whatever, right? Like it's a thing that's happening that like we're all just going to go through together because it's the weather and it is external to us.

Dani:

Framing it like it's not something that she's failing at or choosing to do. Just like that's true for you. Like there's this cloud like hovering over me. It's not like, you know what? Today I decided to be depressed.

Emily:

I reined in this cloud. Like...

Dani:

Get over here. I feel like having a hard time today. Just framing it like this is a thing that's happening for me right now.

Kendall:

And it really, it started during our miscarriage because before the miscarriage, I would describe it to my husband as a wave. And I said, like, it's this undertow always pulling. And like, at least then I was aware. I was like, I can see it pulling back and you see the bigger wave cresting. And like, I know it's about to hit. And I would tell him, I feel a wave coming. I feel it's starting to pull. I don't know how big it's going to crash. And that worked. And then when we had our miscarriage, a lot of unintentional responses. You know, I don't think they meant harm, but a lot of the responses were, well, like that baby wasn't meant to be. And like, you know, look at it as like, you're healthy. And like, I had started to say, like, I don't care about this silver lining of a cloud. Sometimes a cloud's just a cloud. Like it's miserable and I just want to sit with it. And it was just this like, I don't care if it was meant to be because we also worked in the neurodivergent world. So I was like, we were the most prepared people if something came out wrong. So don't tell me it's better that my baby- like we were prepared if anything happened. And so it shifted to this cloud where I was like, so mad people kept telling me silver lining. I was like, no, it's just a cloud. And I'm able to tell my daughter now too, like, I'm still in therapy. I don't have my gold star. I'm not like- I can emotionally regulate for some things. I'm really triggered on some other things. I gentle parent sometimes. And sometimes I look at her and I tell her like, if you don't stop doing this, mom is going to get a storm cloud and I'm going to start yelling. And I tell her like-

Emily:

I'm going to lose it.

Kendall:

And I lean into it. I'm like, I'm trying my hardest to not yell at you. Or if she's screaming, I was like, mom can't take that noise. It brings the clouds. And I like tell her that's why I'm about to walk away and dad can step in because mom can't do that. And so she knows those scenarios too now where depending on certain things, she's like, I'm dealing with this, I'm going to dad. Because she already knows I'm going to tag out. And so that's what we set up. And if it becomes that one day it's not me, it is like if it's her therapist, I'll get her a therapist. If it's like her calling an aunt, I'm like, let her call you as long as she figures out who can manage that. Because it took me a very long time of hoping I can go to some people and figuring out I have to go to other people. And even talking with my husband, like I had to send him videos of like how to talk to someone with depression. I had to send him like, this is your love language. When you're trying to help, you're doing it in your love language. That's not mine. Like, don't hug me. I don't want to hug. I feel disgusting.

Dani:

I'm going to write that down. If I ever see Kendall, do not hug. Okay.

Kendall:

I love hugs. But I'm like telling him, like, learn it. Like, if I'm complaining about something, I'm like, affirmations. I'm like, go write a post-it note and tell me like, not just you love me. I know you love me. But tell me like, I'm amazed you did the dishes when you felt miserable today. Like, give me the tangible you are okay. And it took a while of coaching that with my friends and family. And it took a while for me to be honest that I needed all of that. And so that has been my goal. Like if I can make it through all of this and get out and teach her how to like gear up for it earlier, I'm like so excited for the future. I'm like, what does it look like when she's like a fully okay, boundary setting, emotionally stable adult?

Dani:

Advocating for herself, saying what she needs, being able to feel what's going on for her and not feel like it's a character flaw, because it's just the storm that's coming in and then it will pass. And she's building skills so she knows what to do, things that she can try.

Kendall:

And she's clever. Like the other day, she was getting timeout. She knew the timeout was coming. And I was like, what are you doing wrong? And she goes, I just have a cloud. And I was like, no, you don't. I was like, mom can tell. We're learning it. She's still four.

Emily:

I love it. It's like, I have a cloud. So... free pass? And you're like-

Dani:

Nice try.

Kendall:

Like I got home and she knows, like if I'm really holding our cloud pillow, I'm like down and out. But one day I came home and just like the house is messy. I wanted to clean and she goes, play with me, and I was like, no, I'm doing stuff. And then she asked, she goes, do you have a cloud? And I said, no. She goes, oh, well then you can play with us. We make space for clouds. And I was like, fine. Like, true. If this is going to work, I have to stick to my schedule. So I was like, let's go play. But I did tell her, I was like, I'm not playing horse.

Dani:

I'll play, but I'm not playing horse though.

Kendall:

Yeah. And we can tell them we'll make certain games. Go get your brother for that one.

Dani:

Yeah. I'm also writing that down. Don't ask Kendall to play horse. Okay. I'm taking really solid notes now. Kendall, I am curious in all that you shared. I'm curious when PSI came on your radar. I didn't hear you mention knowing about PSI like during the pandemic when you really, you know, began your motherhood journey. When did we come onto your radar?

Kendall:

PSI wasn't on my radar because I wasn't having the conversations about everything behind the scenes. Like it was, I was just, my background is in like people pleasing nervous energy. So even yesterday, I was with a group and we were talking about the idea of courage and everyone was like, are you courageous? And I was like, you know what? I want to say yes, because I'm extroverted and outgoing and I adventure. But at the same time, I grew up where I was doing a lot of things for everyone else and I was not authentic. I was getting a little bit of the help I needed, but for the most part, you smile and you push through it. So my therapist who was for postpartum was the first time I'd ever really told someone like, I'm struggling with depression that wasn't to my best friend or something. Yes. When I started, one big thing for me is when I started doing my blog, I was just writing up these really honest stories. Like this is what I was going through. When we turned it into a book and people had started to find out, they started asking me like, oh, like, this resonates, like, where are you going for help? And I was like, I could tell people. But at the same time, I was seeing someone for an eating disorder on like the pregnancy struggles. It's not going to help you because you're dealing with something completely different. And so I started this like Macy's Santa is my mantra where like, if I can't get it here, where can I send you? And so when I opened up to finally looking up resources, I was both impressed and like slightly ashamed that I didn't realize there was so much out there to wrap around us because I thought it was only me.

Dani:

Oh.

Kendall:

My friends do the photo shoots with the belly and they all love it. And so I put in the back of the book and on my blog, I had a list of conversation starters. Then I wanted resources. And I was like, I want as many as I can. And I found Blue Dot, who is PSI. I had started speaking with people and going to events and seeing their tables and hearing of the Climb. And I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to put in the back of the book. This exists everywhere. There's a chapter where you are. And so that ended up in the back of the book. And I just started to share more and more of the stuff and follow them and like meet other therapists through them. And there's like the whole Blue Dot like list of people, directory. And I was like, there's so much out there that I didn't know about. So if I can put it front and center and be like, I'm still learning. Here's where you can find it before you end up where I was.

Dani:

Oh, yeah. You are not alone in that department. I didn't know about PSI or the perinatal mental health, I don't know, advocacy world, just that there was a thing besides baby blues. Like, I'm not old either. Like, and I didn't know about it. So that is really incredible. Okay, so you've written a book. Tell us the name of your book.

Kendall:

Mom's Cloud and the Beach Adventure.

Dani:

Everybody will have to go check that out. That's really cool. It's got really great illustrations.

Emily:

It's really good.

Dani:

It's a children's book, it's a picture book, you can sit down and you can talk to your kids about exactly what you just shared today.

Emily:

Yeah.

Kendall:

We are on amazon, but it is because, cooly, I'm international and that makes life easy. But on our website when we sell it we do little bundle packages for people and they can use the code wellness26, my daughter signs the copies. She negotiated a contract.

Dani:

With you and your husband?

Kendall:

She did, because I was like, well, she did help write lines. And we did scan her signature into the book. So she's on this like author page, but I was signing it. And I said, initially it was like our friends and family will want her signature, but people would hear about it and they wanted her signature. So I asked her to sign them. And she said, like, if I do 10 books, can I have a cookie? And I was like, yes. So now she signs, and she gets a cookie.

Dani:

Okay. We're gonna need an update about how many cookies she uh...

Kendall:

She has signed 200 books. She has. And those are the ones that are going out or stocked for events and stuff, but she has. She's gotten like more than cookies, if she does like 15 in a row and stuff, we upgrade to like an ice cream some of them are fun because some of them, because like bedtime was getting close, I was like, I'm gonna give you the cookie now so you can work it off and then we'll sign the books in a little bit.

Dani:

Upfront payment.

Kendall:

Sometimes she draws pictures, but she'll go rogue. Like I'll look away. And I turned back this one time and I was like, Alma, why is there a rat on my book? And she goes, I learned how to draw rats. And I was like, what does that have to do with mommy's book?

Dani:

I bought this book and there's a rat on it.

Kendall:

I gave it to a friend. She loves the story. So it's like, but there are some like rogue signatures and stuff.

Dani:

Yeah.

Kendall:

It's like a great family experience. And Max, he wasn't old enough when I was writing book one, like he wasn't talking. And I'm just finished book two, like it's going to the editor.

Dani:

Yay. Very exciting.

Kendall:

And he has been so jealous of her signing them and doing everything, that he helped me write book two and now he'll get to sign all them, so.

Dani:

Cool. Okay, so if people order the book from your website and put in the code wellness26, they will get an autographed book. There may or may not be a rat on it.

Kendall:

They can request stuff, sometimes people want it signed to them and sometimes they just want it for like a gift, so...

Dani:

Yeah.

Kendall:

It does say like, do you want this signed and what? Someone write, like, I want her to draw this I was like, we'll see.

Dani:

We'll see about that. I mean, we're not really taking requests, but...

Emily:

We'll see what results, right? Oh my gosh, I love it.

Dani:

Okay. Thank you for sharing. We basically talked about our last question, which usually is, you know, what are you doing- To support folks- In the perinatal period now? You are advocating, you're authoring more than one book.

Kendall:

We pay it forward. So proceeds from our website go to acts of kindness. I work with a group called Drop Dead Generous and the Merriment Baker in Baltimore. And we do acts of kindness. And so it's just, like earlier this week, we bought a bunch of toys for a beach library that was really empty. And we just went and like restocked the toys.

Dani:

That's amazing.

Kendall:

I do try and blend it where some of it is acts of kindness that are random and based on Drop Dead Generous grants. And some are like we're donating books to mental health centers for families. So we even it up. My advocacy is just knowing that in a sense, like, yes, it's happy when we like sell and make money, but most of it turns around and it's like giving back to groups that give that support.

Emily:

That's awesome.

Dani:

Kendall, you're pretty incredible. I'm wondering if we're ready to jump into the lightning round. Are we all ready? Dun, dun, dun. It's not fast, but...

Emily:

We'll see. It could be.

Dani:

Hey, Kendall, I'll speak at 1.5 speed. Just kidding. I don't think I can do that. Besides this podcast, Kendall, what is your second favorite podcast? If you listen to podcasts and you would like to recommend something.

Kendall:

Right now, I'm binging Drinking in the Library with Gigi Howard, which I was on, but it's only because I fangirled so much. I was like, I want to talk books. She picks books and you make like a drink to pair with them and pick apart of the books. And I love it.

Dani:

Very cool.

Emily:

That's so funny.

Dani:

Drinking in the Library. Never have heard that. Sometimes we have some repeat suggestions. This is brand new.

Emily:

This is new. I like it. Okay. Are you currently binge watching or reading anything that we need to add to like our Netflix queue? You know what I'm saying?

Kendall:

Yeah. We just jumped on The Pitt bandwagon. Like everyone kept telling us.

Emily:

I keep hearing that.

Kendall:

But Taskmaster, Taskmaster is just happiness. It's on YouTube. It is this British like comedy reality show where like comedians come and they just get ridiculous tasks to do and like arbitrary points. But it is just, we are, we're on like season 16. That's our happiness when we don't want to like sit and...

Dani:

It's just silly and like lighthearted?

Kendall:

It's like a hug. I don't know.

Emily:

OK.

Dani:

I'm going to have to check that out. OK.

Emily:

Is it not safe for children or safe for children?

Kendall:

Our kids watch, like occasionally a comedian would like drop a word. We even started doing- my husband surprised us. Like I got home from work late on Mondays and he will like have a task ready. And so I have to do the task. And they are weird things, like ours that he made was we had to wear oven mitts and dump over this bucket that had toys in it of all different colors. And then he had cups of the colors and they were on like this little rotating thing. And you had to like put them in and like best time wins.

Emily:

All with oven mitts on.

Kendall:

Yeah. And so it was great because what he did, because what they do on the show too, is they do the task. And then the show is all the comedians coming and watching each other do the task and like riffing off of it and stuff. So I didn't know he had pre-recorded the kids doing it. So I thought I was going to watch them. And he was like, oh no, they did it. And it was just fantastic to see how bad they were at it. And how adorable. And so that's what we've been doing like every Monday night now.

Dani:

Monday night Taskmasters at Kendall's house.

Kendall:

Yeah.

Emily:

That's very cool.

Dani:

Do you have a favorite parenting hack that's something that's working in this moment? Because we're not going to pretend that we believe that there is like a special thing that always works at all times for all ages and all stages and all children.

Kendall:

I'm trying to think like beyond mental health ones. Like when we don't want to like do something, we tell our kids they need tickets. And I was like, oh, we didn't get tickets to that. And so that is like one thing where, it's just like lines, like snow cone lines. And I was like, you needed a ticket.

Dani:

Yeah, I didn't get a ticket for that.

Kendall:

Right now I'm going to wait until she grows up. She really wants a cat. And I told her I'm allergic.

Dani:

She's like, they're going to be like, we're going to need to hoard tickets. Also, my mom's allergic to a lot of things. Their minds are going to be blown one day.

Kendall:

And she told my mom too, she was like, grandma. like it's so sad mom's allergic to cats and my mom looked at me and I was like...

Emily:

And you were like...

Dani:

Kendall was like waving her off.

Kendall:

No my mom went with it. She was like, I'm allergic, too. That's where she gets it. And I was like- because I know grandma doesn't want a cat either.

Dani: Parenting hack:

lie. I'm just kidding.

Kendall:

One day they'll find out.

Emily:

Okay, what is one way that you are going to show yourself some radical love? Like self-care, but like more radical than like a bubble bath or...

Dani:

I mean, if that's radical, we have some friends who take multiple baths in one day and they're like, you know what? I'm taking care of myself because that feels good.

Kendall:

It's not today, but tomorrow, my husband and I, we're switching cars, and I have already been on Facebook Marketplace asking to pick up like big things. He like caught me somewhat today because I guess I started mumbling to myself like, I do want that. And he was like, are you scrolling on Facebook Marketplace? And I was like, no.

Dani:

Ma'am, hand over the device. You can't be left alone.

Kendall:

I'm going to get some furniture we don't need.

Emily:

Oh, man, I relate to that.

Dani:

Okay, I'm not sure if you're into time machines or not. But if you could hop into a time machine and go back to the pandemic. Nobody wants to do that. But if you had to. What is one thing that today you would love to tell pre-recovery you who was going through all the hard things?

Kendall:

There is a quote where it's like, everything's going to be okay in the end. And if it's not okay, it's not the end. I think just reminding myself that more because it is like looking back and seeing all the stuff that we did with our daughter that we put so much weight on, that just- like, she's she's alive now. So like, we made it through and it did not matter as much as we thought it mattered.

Dani:

Everything feels really big in the moment. Yeah.

Emily:

Okay. Next question. How do you take your water? Bubbles, no bubbles? Flavor, no flavor? Ice, no ice? How are you staying hydrated?

Kendall:

I am not. I'm not. My doctor will ask me every visit. She's like, how's your hydration going? I was like, miserable. I'm a water bottle person. So it's always like no ice in the water bottle. I only have one that you can put flavor in, because the straw doesn't get icky. But will put it down somewhere and then a child will take it and I will forget to go find it. And I'll be like, I didn't drink water at all today.

Emily:

I relate.

Dani:

It's kind of like when you go to the dentist and they're like, like the doctor is probably like the dentist.

Emily:

Flossing. Rudest question.

Dani:

Like they already know the answer to that. Your mouth is so dry. You're in there talking to the doctor and they're like, how's hydration going? And you're like, it's like you've got peanut butter in your mouth. They're like, I know the answer to this. I was just at the dentist this week and it was like, they're like, oh, a little bit of bleeding. And I'm like, I know. Okay, so I don't floss every day. Room for improvement. Whatever. Okay. Well, we love that you have water bottles and that you're trying.

Kendall:

I fill them.

Dani:

We had to check in. I mean, somebody's being hydrated in your house.

Kendall:

Yeah, my kids are so hydrated.

Dani:

Also, your water bottle looks really cool and has awesome stickers on it. The listeners couldn't see it, but we can, so we're going to shout that out. Kendall, if anybody is listening to this episode and anything resonated and they would like to get a hold of you, how can they do that? Slash, it's okay if you don't want anybody to contact you. So there's like no wrong answer to this question, but I'm going to ask it.

Kendall:

I made it like super easy for myself because everything is Cloudy Day Chronicles. That is my Instagram, my Substack, my LinkedIn, @gmail.org. Like you can't not find me if you type that in.

Dani:

Awesome. We will put a link to all of this in today's show notes. It has been lovely sitting here with you, Kendall, and getting personal and hearing all about your lived experience and your book and all the cool advocacy things you're doing to support folks in your area and giving back. Emily, would you like to take us out?

Emily:

I would love to. Okay. Kendall, I think that the metaphor of weather is like a wise thing that I would like to see everyone using. It's such a great way to decouple sometimes how we feel from who we are as a person or how we're behaving from who we are as a person. So thank you so much for sharing your cloudy days and your not-so-cloudy days with us. Thanks for being here.

Kendall:

Thanks for having me. Such a safe space to talk. Weird, sad things and laugh and be okay with it.

Dani:

We're here for it all, you know. Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time and well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

Head Shot

Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
Head Shot

Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host