I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

MELODYE PHILLIPS - Birth Trauma, Postpartum Depression & Realizing You’re Not a Bad Mom

• Episode 75

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 49:59

Send us Fan Mail

On today's episode, we're sitting down with Melodye Phillips, a perinatal mental health certified licensed professional counselor supervisor and certified eating disorder specialist who owns and operates her own practice in East Texas. Melodye specializes in working with mothers through pregnancy, postpartum, loss, complicated pregnancies, birth trauma, and disordered eating. And she brings something to this work that goes beyond her credentials. She's a perinatal mental health disorder survivor, she's a loss mama, she has three kids of her own. Her experience in this field isn't just professional. It's personal, and it shows in the way that she talks about this work. We'll talk about it all today, what it means to hold space for mothers in some of their hardest moments, and what it looks like when the person doing the work has lived some of those moments herself. Oh, and let's just say that delivering a baby can take some unexpected turns. There was an incident involving a squirrel, a transformer, and electricity at the hospital. We don't want to spoil it. We'll let Melodye do the honors. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend Melodye.


Mentioned on today's episode:

Interested in sharing your story?
Fill out our podcast interest form here!

Questions about the I AM ONE Podcast?
Email Dani Giddens - dani@postpartum.net

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Connect by PSI - Download PSI's New App!
Apple Version
Android Version

Visit PSI's website: https://www.postpartum.net
Find free resources & info on certification, training, and other incredible programs!

Call or text 'HELP' to the PSI Helpline: 1-800-944-4773
Not feeling like yourself? Looking for some support? You never need a diagnosis to ask for help.

National Maternal Mental Health Hotline (U.S. only): 1-833-852-6262
Free and confidential Hotline for parents, providers & support people in English and Spanish.

Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S. & Canada): 988
Free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for pro...

Dani:

Welcome to the I Am One podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with Melodye Phillips, a perinatal mental health certified licensed professional counselor supervisor and certified eating disorder specialist who owns and operates her own practice in East Texas. Melodye specializes in working with mothers through pregnancy, postpartum, loss, complicated pregnancies, birth trauma, and disordered eating. And she brings something to this work that goes beyond her credentials. She's a perinatal mental health disorder survivor, she's a lost mama. She has three kids of her own. Her experience in this field isn't just professional. It's personal, and it shows in the way that she talks about this work. We'll talk about it all today, what it means to hold space for mothers in some of their hardest moments, and what it looks like when the person doing the work has lived some of those moments herself. Oh, and let's just say that delivering a baby can take some unexpected turns. There was an incident involving a squirrel, a transformer, and electricity at the hospital. We don't want to spoil it. We'll let Melodye do the honors. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend Melodye. Melodye, welcome to the podcast studio. We are so excited to be sitting down with you. I've been counting down the days. All the listeners should know. I've been looking ahead at my calendar and going like, okay, I have like four days till we record with Melodye, three days. And then a storm hit today. And this is your second location.

Melodye:

Yes.

Dani:

We've made it happen. Your internet is cooperating at the moment. And we are so excited for you to be here and have this conversation with you. So thank you.

Melodye:

Yes. Thank you so much. I have been excited, too, counting down the days. And yes, I'm glad that we were able to adjust and make it work because that was crazy. But I'm so excited to be here and talk with y'all.

Emily:

Am I asking the first question?

Dani:

Yeah, Emily, do it. You look really excited.

Emily:

I'm like, I'm ready.

Melodye:

I'm ready. Let's do it.

Emily:

Okay. So Melodye, can you give us an introduction to who you are? Like name, pronouns? Are you a parent? What do the people need to know about you? What's your favorite pizza topping, etc. You know?

Dani:

Share your location.

Melodye:

Okay.

Dani:

Give us your social security.

Melodye:

My life story, all the things.

Dani:

Whatever you feel like.

Melodye:

All right. I'm ready to go.

Dani:

Okay.

Melodye:

I've got it all.

Dani:

Okay.

Melodye:

My name is Melodye Phillips. My pronouns are she, her. I am a parent. I'm a mom of loss, however you say that.

Dani:

A loss mama.

Melodye:

A loss mama. That's the phrase I was looking for.

Dani:

You're not a llama though.

Melodye:

I'm not a llama. Not to be confused with llamas. No, not there. So I'm a loss mama and I have three living kiddos. They are nine, seven, and five. I have two boys and one little girl. She actually busted her eye last night. It is swollen shut. So yeah, she just lives her best life being so fun. I'm in Texas and I am a therapist and own a group practice called Maternal Mental Health of East Texas. So my husband and I also own a business called Camp Canine. People get really excited about that. I think that's fun to know. We do like day camp. People bring their dogs for basically daycare. And then we board dogs and cats, mainly dogs. So yeah, super fun.

Dani:

Holy cow. Do you have like a lot of land?

Melodye:

No, we have a facility where we own. I mean, there's like, I think it's like an acre maybe.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Maybe not quite an acre, somewhere in that range. And so we've got a facility there. We don't live there. We did some separation in life.

Emily:

That's smart.

Dani:

That's a healthy boundary.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

I've lived within the city limits where a third of an acre is like a big lot.

Melodye:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dani:

An acre. That's pretty cool.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

I didn't know that. We didn't discuss this in the pre-recording. I didn't share that tidbit.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

It didn't come up.

Melodye:

Yeah. It's like one of my fun facts. I'm like, oh, yeah, we also do this.

Dani:

Uh-huh. That's very cool.

Emily:

Very cool.

Dani:

So, Melodye, what role have perinatal mental health disorders played in your life personally, professionally? We are here for whatever you want to share today.

Melodye:

Alright. It is a wild ride. I will share, start off professional and it will morph into personal.

Dani:

Okay.

Melodye:

Actually, my personal and professional life has always like intertwined and overlapped. When I was in high school, I have a brother who's eight years younger than me. And he suffered a traumatic brain injury and he's okay. But that was a life-changing event for my entire family. After he got out of the hospital, he was in all these different types of therapies. And so that's what I wanted to do. I was like, I want to be a therapist and I want to work with young kids that have had brain injuries. I wanted to work in this hospital that he went to. You know, it took a very different route. So I was a therapist for six or seven years, I think, before we started trying to have kiddos. And my first pregnancy was an early pregnancy loss. Once again, that was a huge life-changing, I don't even want to say event because that doesn't feel fair, but that was really big. And so there was like so much grief that I felt. Pretty quickly I got pregnant with my oldest and I had a pretty complicated pregnancy with him. I spent the last like two and a half months on bed rest.

Dani:

Wow.

Melodye:

Yeah, I was in the hospital. I was actually in and out of the hospital. I was at home for a week was in the hospital for two months. And then I was home for a few days and then I went and delivered him. So yeah, so that was kind of all over the place. And then I actually shut down my practice for about, it was 20 months overall, including the time I was on bed rest because we tried virtual sessions and my doctor was like, absolutely not. I was doing it from the hospital bed and they were like, no, this is not good.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Yeah. So we cut that out. So, let's see, I closed my practice. I was home with him for 18 months. And then I decided to open my practice back up. Of course, the same month that I opened my practice, I got pregnant with my second. That's the way that goes, right?

Dani:

Yeah, of course.

Melodye:

Yeah. Sure. Okay.

Dani:

You know what should happen right now? This.

Melodye:

We should have another kid right now. I'm like, it was crazy. But–

Emily:

Really quick, what population were you serving before? And then like when you opened it back up, like, was there a shift then or?

Melodye:

Good question. I worked for a long time with children and adolescents and their families. When I was in grad school, I worked at the Children's Advocacy Center. So I worked primarily with kids that had suffered from sexual and physical abuse. I actually went with kids through, I started a court program here where we walked families through the court process. I interviewed children. So I had a big background in that abuse and trauma area. So I worked largely with kids. I was a play therapist at a local agency. And then right before, probably six months before I got pregnant the first time, I went into private practice. And I decided I wanted to move away from more kind of generalized work with kiddos and work with eating disorders. So I had started in 2013, started learning about eating disorders. I had no context for that, but I was approached by a local dietician and she needed a therapist to work with. So I really fell in love with that work very quickly, then decided to go into private practice. I just got a great opportunity. I had no intention of doing that, like career-wise, that was never a goal. But knowing we were not trying yet, but we were talking about, like we were gonna get there and we just knew it was a good decision for us. And it was, I'm very grateful that I made that choice. But I worked solely with people who had an eating disorder and I talk about it from like a spectrum. So you could have been diagnosed with a clinical eating disorder or it could have been like, I just have issues with food and my body. And I saw adolescents and older, I stopped seeing younger kiddos. And so I primarily saw adolescents and young adults, but I did have a woman in her 80s and I had a couple of adult men as well. So that was my primary specialty. And when I opened my practice back up, that's what I stuck with. I was still largely with eating disorders. I did not start learning about perinatal work until after my second was born. So when I was pregnant with him, my oldest was, he was like 15 months when I got pregnant.

Dani:

Melodye's doing quick math.

Melodye:

I don't know.

Dani:

On a Friday.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Emily:

They're two years apart. So that makes sense.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Yeah. Somewhere in there, however that works. Yeah. I was still in that postpartum period, but I didn't even know or have context for that because I thought like, well, he's over a year, so I'm done.

Emily:

Right.

Melodye:

With that period. So then my pregnancy with my second, My pregnancy was less complicated, but my birth and delivery was a dumpster fire.

Dani:

Oh, no.

Melodye:

Yeah, it was really bad. We were trying for a VBAC. So this is just a little fun tidbit. So when my oldest—

Dani:

We like those.

Melodye:

Okay. He was breech. One of the reasons why they had me in the hospital is I had low amniotic fluid. So the way the nurse described it is he had no swimming pool, and he was breech. And so they weren't even willing to have conversations about flipping or anything like that. Because we were all just so worried. I went in at 27 weeks and I had him at 36. Is that right? Yeah. I went in at 28 and had him at 36. And like, I wasn't worried about having a C-section. It wasn't what I wanted. But I was like, at that point, I was like, just get him here. Like for crying out loud. When I'm waiting in triage, a squirrel gets into the transformer with him and blows the electricity. I mean, there was a generator. So like as a patient, I didn't know, but they came in and they were like, surgery, we're going to be delayed because we have to do critical people first.

Dani:

Squirrel! Like actually.

Melodye:

That's a real life thing that happened.

Emily:

With the first or with the second?

Melodye:

The first. My first.

Dani:

Somebody needs to invent some sort of like friendly squirrel deterrent out near all transformers.

Emily:

And they're like, well, the lights aren't working in the OR right now. So we're going to need a minute. Where's Mark Rober when you need him? Hello.

Dani:

Call us. Let's collab.

Melodye:

I love that you brought that in. My kids love Mark Rober. And that episode, I'm going to have to tell my oldest, that's why.

Dani:

Oh, gosh. The squirrel videos. Oh, my gosh. Listen, we're digressing.

Melodye:

That's hilarious, but it's fun to digress.

Dani:

If you haven't Googled, like, Mark Rober, or not Google, go to YouTube. Mark Rober squirrel video. Man, he makes science awesome.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

Oh, man. Anyway, check it out if you haven't. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Emily:

Back to your delivery.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

To this craziness. So after that, it was fine. Had a C-section, whatever. All that. Okay, fine. So then with my middle, we were trying for a VBAC because then I was like, I don't ever want to do that again. That sucks. And so let's not do that. My doctor was very pro VBAC, very supportive. I had gestational diabetes with my oldest and had it again with my second. and so I noticed that like my blood sugars were doing some weird things so I go into my doctor and I'm like, hey, it was like the week before he, you know, he had a kind of deadline of like if you don't go into labor naturally then this is where we'll need to start having a conversation. The week before we went in I tell him all of this and he's like, oh my gosh. My husband was with me and he goes if it was- I saw a male OB so he was like, if it was your wife what would you do, and he said, I would deliver immediately. And so we scheduled the C-section for two days later. It was like this whole weird thing that like how we planned it, he was like squeezing us in. So it was like at 5 p.m. after he got off clinic hours, before he went on vacation. It was like this whole juggle that we did.

Emily:

Wow.

Melodye:

So that morning I had to start fasting. And I noticed like my blood sugars were dropping, but I couldn't eat anything because I was going to have a C-section. And so we called the hospital and they're like, hey, my blood sugars are dropping. So they're like, you got to come in, get an IV. So I went in a couple of hours early. We're just hanging out in triage. They gave me IV bags to help, you know, regulate my blood sugar. And the nurses come in and they're like, your blood work came back a little strange. We need to run it again. So I'm like, okay. Then a little while later, a nurse comes in and she's like, do you feel bad? And I'm like, I mean, my butt hurts from this bed. But like, other than that, I'm fine, you know?

Emily:

You're like, have you been in these beds? zero stars.

Dani:

Got any memory foam around?

Melodye:

I know, right? I'm like, gosh, I think I'm permanently damaged from those beds. But-

Emily:

We all are.

Melodye:

Trauma and our bodies are like done forever from those hospital beds. So a little while later, they're like, you don't have a headache? I'm like, no, I'm fine. My doctor comes in and he's like, what's going on? I'm like, I don't know. You tell me. He's like, well, your platelets are extremely low. They're supposed to be at 100. Mine were at 50. My blood pressure was elevated. Long story short, there's been a mixture. In the hospital, they told me that I had HELLP syndrome, but my medical record said I had severe preeclampsia.

Dani:

What's the first thing that you, sorry.

Melodye:

HELLP syndrome?

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Don't ask me all it stands for.

Emily:

I know that often you end up with like a rash all over your body. Like it is very physically uncomfortable.

Melodye:

Not me. Yep. Nope. The only way they knew was my blood pressure. When she came in and asked me how I felt, they told me later that my blood pressure was like 200 over something, like it was insanely high.

Dani:

Wow. But you didn't notice a difference.

Melodye:

I didn't feel bad. I just was like, what are we doing here? Like my butt hurts. I'm numb. I want to like get this kid here. And then part of HELLP is that your blood, your platelets drop. And so my platelets were so low. The problem with that was I was supposed to have a C-section and you need platelets to clot. And so they were like, we can't like, I just remember sitting there thinking like, okay, I can't stay pregnant longer. I have a kid at home who's waiting on me.

Emily:

You're like, I have somewhere to be, so.

Melodye:

I'm like, we gotta do something. But I also want this kid to get here safely. So I was like, I just remember thinking, what do we do? What are y'all suggesting? And their suggestion was, this also is the funny part. So the anesthesiologist comes in and he's like, hey, your platelet count's really low. So we're gonna have to give you a platelet transfusion before you deliver because you'll bleed out. And he said, if we give you a spinal tap for your C-section, there's a one in 100 chance you'll be paralyzed or we can put you under general anesthesia. Your husband can't be in there, whole thing.

Emily:

Because you're out.

Melodye:

Yeah. It's like you go in for surgery.

Emily:

I looked up HELLP.

Melodye:

Okay. Thank you.

Emily:

Because I want us all to know, this is like the first episode we've done where we've covered anything like this. So it is a variant of preeclampsia. It is like a severe version. So there's a breakdown of red blood cells. There's liver issues. There's elevated liver enzymes and low platelets. And obviously, if it's a variant of preeclampsia, you're still going to have the blood pressure issue on top of all of that.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Emily:

Sounds like a hoot.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

Thanks for that. We bring the facts at the I Am One Podcast.

Emily:

Here to help.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Yes. No, I do- I'm like, I don't remember all of it, but yeah.

Emily:

But that's why you got the messaging of both. Like sometimes they were like, it's preeclampsia. And sometimes they were calling it HELLP because there is an overlap there.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Emily:

Okay.

Melodye:

And the treatment for it is delivery. I mean, that's the safest thing. And so thankfully, I was 38 weeks when that happened. Because even if you're earlier in your pregnancy, that's still- because it can be fatal.

Emily:

Yes.

Melodye:

I remember my parents came like, yeah, it was just like this whole thing. Everybody was like, what's going on? I was like, I don't know. Like just feeling so like, so anyways, this anesthesiologist comes in. He's like, you got a one in 100 chance that you're going to be paralyzed. And I'm thinking, that's not bad. And my husband was like, whoa, hang on. Let's have a conversation. That feels a little close for me. You know, so we talked about it more. And my dad was a CRNA and his specialty was labor and delivery. And so we kind of processed through with him. Yeah, it was just a weird thing. But we ended up deciding to go with the general anesthesia. And my doctor and the anesthesiologist both felt like that was really the safer route. Although my doctor kept apologizing, I'm going to have to put you on magnesium after you deliver. And I was like, why are you apologizing to me? So then later on, I found out because it's awful. You're just so drugged out. Like, yeah, it was just a...

Dani:

You didn't know.

Melodye:

I didn't know. I didn't know. And now I'm like, now I know why.

Dani:

He knew.

Emily:

Yeah. The magnesium that you get in that situation is very different than like the supplement that you take.

Melodye:

Yeah. Oh, thank you for saying that. Yeah.

Dani:

It's not like a before bed calm drink.

Emily:

Right. No.

Melodye:

Yes.

Emily:

Like you're like kind of sedated a little bit.

Melodye:

Yeah. So I had a friend come and visit and she told me afterwards, like it was very distressing for her to see me because I was there and I was talking, but I was just like, she wasn't prepared because everything happened so quickly and she didn't have connections to know. So she just kind of showed up and was like, oh my gosh, this was pre-COVID when you could just show up, you know, to things. So that was his birth. And my husband didn't get to be in the room, like bless his heart. So it was like trauma for him, trauma for me. Yeah.

Dani:

You were not able to witness.

Melodye:

No, I was out.

Dani:

Your husband wasn't there. You weren't there. Nothing like either of you had expected.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Yeah. And not what we had expected at all. So that was a big thing. I had originally, he told me when we were talking about family planning, we'll have as many kids as you want. And I wanted four. That was the number- right? You pick out of the hat sometimes and you're like, this is what I want.

Emily:

You're like, I played MASH as a kid. I know how many kids I'm having.

Melodye:

Right? It always said four. Yeah.

Dani:

Also, we're living in a mansion.

Melodye:

Yes. Just so you know. Also.

Dani:

Yeah. Also, you're Chris Pine. Cool.

Melodye:

Oh, man. The MASH days. It's so good.

Dani:

Melodye, back to you.

Melodye:

I mean, we're in the hospital after this kid is born and he's like, we're done. We're done. And I'm like, let's not go there yet.

Dani:

Let's talk about it later.

Melodye:

Let's talk about it later.

Emily:

We're going to circle back.

Melodye:

We're going to circle back to that. So we did end up, we talked with my OB about it extensively. And we did end up obviously having another. We were deciding like, okay, let's start talking about trying with her. And then COVID hit. And we were like, let's not have a baby right now. And then a week later, I was pregnant. So...

Dani:

Oh, good talk.

Melodye:

So, yeah.

Dani:

Oh, geez.

Melodye:

So I had a COVID baby, my third pregnancy. I had gestational diabetes again. I was hyper aware. My OB was phenomenal. He told me, I will run as many tests as you need in order for you to feel comfortable because it snuck up on us. I did not have blood pressure issues. Like my blood work throughout my pregnancy was all normal with my second. And I advocated for myself, like saying, I'm really scared of this happening again. And he was like, I don't have concerns. However, we will do what we need to do.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

I love that man forever. And we just, he was like, I'm so sorry, but we can't even have a conversation about a VBAC at this point. And I was like, I don't want to. I don't want to. I just, I need something to feel a little more controlled. So we go in, because I'm not done with my pregnancy chaos. Go in for my third.

Dani:

There's more.

Melodye:

There's more.

Dani:

Oh, Melodye.

Melodye:

So I'm on the operating table. We had the normal thing.

Dani:

Spinal tap?

Melodye:

Yeah, I had a spinal tap. Doctor comes in. He's like swabbing me to see if- because they check to make sure that you're numb. And I go, oh my gosh, that's cold. And he's like, huh?

Dani:

Come again?

Melodye:

I can feel that. And he's like, that's not okay. So we do all of these things. I'm upside down for a while, or I don't even remember. They moved the bed. We were trying all these things. They were afraid to give me more anesthesia because they didn't know how much had actually taken because my legs were numb, but parts of them weren't. And it was just a really odd thing. So once again, my husband and I are like, what would you do? And he's like, I'm so sorry. I would do general again. Like, I don't know. I'm scared if we give you too much, what that will do. So I'm like on the bed crying and the woman comes in. She's like, you're going to be okay. I'm like, I know I've done this already less than two years ago. I'm over it. So-

Emily:

Jeeze Louise.

Dani:

Obviously I'm over it.

Emily:

Totally fine.

Melodye:

But y'all what's crazy is I still wanted a fourth and I'm not even done with her. So I have her and the rest of that part goes fine. I'm in recovery. No, I was upstairs at that point. So I'm in the postpartum and I start hemorrhaging and I passed a blood clot that was as big as a baby is what the nurse told me. And my OB said when he was like working with me, he said like, yeah, your uterus just wasn't contracting the way that it needed to. And my two youngest are 20 months apart. And with a C-section, they recommend, which I know not all moms do that, but they recommend a two-year between the deliveries, at least a two-year time window.

Dani:

Why do they recommend that?

Melodye:

I'm not 100% sure. I think it has to do with just like giving your body that extra time to heal. We overlook the impact of C-sections. Yeah. And just how hard they are on your body.

Emily:

Mm-hmm.

Melodye:

Like I have a friend who had, she's got four kiddos. Her youngest two are twins. Her oldest two didn't have any pregnancy- like had normal pregnancies, easy vaginal deliveries. Her twins, she had the, I think one of them was a C-section. And she called me afterward and said, I am so sorry. I thought you were being kind of a weenie about it. And now I know.

Dani:

Well, you know, I think we've heard so much about C-sections that it sounds like, oh, it's just this routine procedure. In fact, it is major surgery.

Melodye:

It is. Yeah, it's a big deal.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melodye:

So and then after my youngest, my middle was born, I was working very part time. I was asked by someone who was executive director of a nonprofit. They ran a support group for parents that had experienced stillbirth or infant loss. And she asked me, she had a bunch of moms who were pregnant again that were really struggling, and she knew my story. And so, yeah, so I was pregnant with my middle because I ended up going through a lot of this group. So anyways, I found out I really loved working with parents. And I actually put on my Psychology Today profile, because I was mixed because I had all this eating disorder very specialized training. And I knew that perinatal mental health was the same, but I didn't know where to go yet. And so I was like, well, I feel like I need to put it out there so people can start finding me.

Dani:

The same in that there's specialized training?

Melodye:

Yes, for perinatal mental health.

Emily:

Yeah, yeah.

Dani:

Yes.

Melodye:

And I wanted the right clients to find me. And so I put it out there on Psychology Today and Melissa Bentley with PSI.

Dani:

Shout out Melissa Bentley.

Melodye:

I don't even know if she remembers, but-

Emily:

I'm sure she does.

Dani:

Melissa's got a good memory.

Melodye:

I fangirl her hardcore because she was like, hey, do you have perinatal training? And I'm like, no, but please tell me where to go. It was so new. And so she's like telling me about PSI and all this stuff. So I started doing the trainings. I actually did the training in 2020. I was pregnant with my third. I remember doing it from my living room floor with my three-year-old, my one-year-old crawling all over me. But so that's how I got into the perinatal world. And so I didn't have any context for perinatal mental health disorders. I'm getting back to the original question.

Dani:

Oh, okay.

Emily:

I know you are. This is a great story. Continue.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

So through the training, I looked back at my postpartum with my oldest and then pregnancy with my second and was like, holy cow. And I'm like, I for sure had postpartum anxiety, for sure. Just all of the things that we experienced. After my middle was born, I definitely had postpartum depression. I didn't have the PTSD, the flashbacks and, you know, more of that kind of classic trauma response, but it was a lot of the depression. And the piece that I shared. I read the quote by Karen Kleiman that said one of the hardest parts about the symptoms of postpartum depression and anxiety are that they don't feel like symptoms. They feel like who you are. And I started sobbing reading that. If you've experienced it, you know what that means. Like your whole body. Yeah, it goes. Anytime I talk about perinatal mental health disorders, I mention that quote because I remember when my middle was a baby, my oldest looks very similar to me. We're very similar. My middle whoops a lot like his dad. I don't know whose personality. He's got his own mix in there.

Emily:

Wild card.

Dani:

Squirrel.

Melodye:

Yeah. But he would cry. And now looking back, I'm like, yeah, it was the witching hour of the day. But my postpartum mind, and I think still trying to process and understand not only physically, because having gone through general anesthesia, having been on mag, and then also having had another C-section, like it was all these things. I was just in this fog and this daze. And I would describe to people later, not at the time, but it felt like there was like a glass in between me and him. I did all the things. I breastfed him. We didn't have any issues with that. I cuddled with him. It was like all this stuff. But I just felt like there was something in between us. It wasn't like we weren't bonding, but it was just like I couldn't get to him fully. And then he would cry and my husband would get home from work and he'd stop crying. So my narrative was, oh, see, he knows. He's the one who knows I'm really this awful mom.

Dani:

I'm the problem.

Melodye:

Yes, I totally felt like I was the problem. I have a very close relationship with my mom. My best friend is a therapist. My other best friend is a social worker. My husband and I are very close. I talk a lot. So he hears a lot for me.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

And never once did I tell any of them this. And so my middle stopped, like just one day, like stiff armed me, stopped breastfeeding at 10 months old. And I was distraught.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Yeah. He was literally, like pushed me away. I remember the day. I remember where I was. I called a lactation consultant that I had worked with with my oldest. She had worked with me in the hospital with both kids, like knew her well, loved her. She came out and we did all the things that she said to do. He ended up getting tubes. And so I think it was he had gotten a lot of ear infections. So I think it had to do something with that. But we- there was not- like he would not latch again at all.

Emily:

He was like, No, we're good. I'll have...

Melodye:

Yeah.

Emily:

applesauce and like some crackers or whatever. Like...

Melodye:

Yeah, he's like, I'm fine. I was not fine. Because once again, it reinforced this narrative that like, I've done something wrong to him.

Emily:

Right.

Melodye:

Of course, now he is my cuddle bug and all these wonderful things. Like my mom is like, remember when and I'm like, yeah. Well, then fast forward, my daughter was born and I felt great, y'all. Like I was so worried. I felt wonderful. And I would, that's when I started talking about how bad I felt after my middle was born. And my mom and husband were like, what? And I'm like, I felt terrible, but I didn't tell anybody. And I didn't know until I had gone through those trainings. And that may be the difference because I was pregnant with my daughter when I did the PSI training and I started learning. And I think even though I didn't apply it in those moments, I think it did help give me language and understanding of what was going on. So it felt less personalized.

Dani:

Oh, yeah.

Melodye:

Yeah. So definitely have had a lot of my own experience, even though I didn't have language for it at the time. So that's the answer to the question 30 minutes later.

Emily:

I mean, you've just covered a lot of things. You've told us your experience, Whether or not you were diagnosed, what it was like to get help, because you didn't know that you needed it until you were in that PSA training. And how did you find PSI? Melissa Bentley found you.

Melodye:

Yeah. Yeah. So there you go.

Dani:

So, Melodye, I have a question about the getting help part.

Melodye:

Okay.

Dani:

You are pregnant with your daughter. You're going through the PSI trainings. Light bulbs are going off and you're going, oh, my gosh. Okay. You're able to reframe. Holy cow. This wasn't a character flaw in me. I had some things going on for me. I was going through something. When you realized that and you were like, aha, had you had help processing what you had been through? Was it the light bulb moment that kind of started you on the path of going, oh, right. Did you have a therapist? Have you processed? Are we? We're not your therapist.

Emily:

Are you OK?

Dani:

This is not therapy.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

It may be therapeutic, but.

Melodye:

But. Just my relationship with therapy overall. When I was in high school, I started therapy. I saw the same therapist off and on from 17 to 32.

Dani:

Wow.

Melodye:

But she retired before like my oldest was a year old, I think. Like I remember taking him to her office.

Dani:

Dear therapists, it's rude when you retire. 17 to 32? You have been through some things together. Wow.

Melodye:

Yes. Yeah. She helped me walk through a lot of life, huge life events. So...

Dani:

Yeah, you grew up with her.

Melodye:

I literally did. Yeah, literally like grew up with her. Saw her while I was in grad school, like all the things. And yeah, so she was really wonderful. She did see me a few times after she had like officially retired, but her license was still active because she was like, friend, you need some help. Yeah, I was like, please just like help me.

Dani:

She's like, I'll dust off the couch. Hold on.

Melodye:

Yes. Yeah. I'll dust that off. So she had retired when I really realized like, oh, this is what this is. Side note at that time, I was the very first PMH-C in my area. And I live in a pretty big area in Texas. Yeah. There just wasn't a lot of conversation and awareness yet.

Dani:

There weren't like meetups of people who were specialized in perinatal mental health.

Melodye:

No.

Dani:

Got it.

Melodye:

To my knowledge, at least, I'm the first PMH-C in my area. There's only like seven of us now. But still, that's a big change in a short amount of time.

Dani:

Right.

Melodye:

So I had trouble finding someone who had perinatal training. The other thing is, I'm an eating disorder therapist, and I work from a body and food neutral approach. And I'm very picky about who I see. So I was also trying to struggle, like balancing, like, okay, well, I can see someone who's trained in the perinatal world, but also I don't want them to give me diet-y information, especially because I had gestational diabetes. I got lots of input about that. So I found someone who said she kind of did a little bit of both. Her perinatal training was really more of like her personal experience. And I remember feeling kind of frustrated, like she did a lot of skill teaching with me. But looking back, I'm like, there was really some like rage going on. And I think that that was a lot of like the anxiety symptoms, but she didn't really have the lens to like really help with that. So I saw her for a short period of time. And then I saw another therapist for a short period of time. Also being doubly self-employed. And we have terrible insurance. We have insurance, health insurance that's like in a catastrophe, we're covered and we're okay. But we don't have mental health benefits.

Dani:

If you'd like to see somebody, it'll be a copay of $8,000.

Melodye:

Yes. Yeah.

Dani:

But it feels like it, though. Like there isn't a $20 copay to go see somebody.

Melodye:

No, there was not that. So I really had trouble. There were people that I wanted to see, but I just couldn't access.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melodye:

That was a real struggle. I think that I could have gotten more help sooner. I've never formally done trauma therapy and would probably still benefit from it with my middle. Once again, I'm not having active PTSD flashbacks. Like I don't have a lot of times where I remember or get distraught about it, but I still think it would be helpful for me to go back through and reprocess.

Emily:

Totally.

Melodye:

So yeah, but the resources are limited because, well, and that's a whole other conversation that we could have about insurance and just the accessibility. So yeah. So and that experience did shift things for me professionally as well. Like we now take insurance. I have a grad intern who sees moms who have Medicaid for free. That's something that I'm going to keep doing. I'm very, so where I went to grad school, I also live in the same town. So I'm pretty connected to the university. So yeah, so it's like that accessibility piece, because I think sometimes even when you recognize I need the help, you can't get it. And that just can't be a thing. Which, circle back, that's why I love PSI groups too. So it's just wonderful. Yeah.

Dani:

Shout out to PSI groups.

Melodye:

I know, right?

Dani:

Did you ever attend one?

Melodye:

I did not attend one for myself. I wish I would have. And I don't know why I didn't.

Dani:

Same.

Melodye:

Yeah, because I did the training. I knew they were there, but I just, it never like, yeah, I never thought I should go to a PSI group.

Emily:

I mean, sometimes that's how we limit ourselves. We're like, is this for me? It turns out, yes.

Dani:

I needed somebody to say, I wonder if it might be like a worthwhile idea to like talk to a therapist. I needed my doctor to say that to me to go, okay. Like, I knew therapists were there. My best friend growing up, her mom was, I mean, you know, like, I know that talking about feelings is okay. I just needed somebody to present it and say, okay.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

Anyway. Cool.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melodye:

That's the story.

Dani:

And I'm sticking to it.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Emily:

I love it.

Melodye:

That's the one we got to stick to.

Emily:

Okay, so are you exclusively working with folks in the perinatal period now? Or are you also working with folks with eating disorders or disordered eating, let's say, right?

Melodye:

So I'm not exclusive. That is the majority that I see. I do not see adolescents anymore. Occasionally, I'll see a young adult who has an eating disorder if they are a direct referral to me. Two of my therapists do have some training in eating disorders and some experience. So depending on the severity of it, I will say, okay, I'm not available, but they are. I also really love grief work. Yeah, I have a few people that I'm seeing for just grief that, yeah, don't have anything to do with like perinatal mental health. But largely, I work with moms who have some level of disordered eating or disrupted relationship with food. A lot of the people that I work with, because I'm not exclusive to moms, any person who to see me, a lot of the reason why they reach out, they were either directly referred to me for grief or they found me and they read that I do both. And so they're like, hey, a lot of people would say, I saw on your website, I was looking for it because I think I have postpartum depression, I'm struggling postpartum. Also, I saw that you talk about body image and I've always hated my body. And I'm like, okay, let's talk about that.

Dani:

Cool.

Emily:

It's like, welcome to being a woman in America.

Dani:

You are in the right place, my friend.

Melodye:

Yeah. And what I train my therapist is like, we're having those conversations about food and body, even if parents aren't coming in for that and don't have an eating disorder or disordered eating. We're still having those conversations because that's important. So, yeah.

Emily:

Are you ready for a lightning round?

Melodye:

I am. I'm ready.

Emily:

Let's go.

Dani:

Let's go. Melodye!

Melodye:

Yes.

Dani:

I scared you.

Melodye:

I'm ready.

Dani:

Actually, we should tell the listeners really quick. Melodye scared me. She didn't do anything. It wasn't on purpose. When she got to the recording studio, nobody was there. And suddenly Melodye was. And I just jumped out of my chair. Anyway, I scared you back.

Melodye:

You got me back.

Dani:

Melodye, besides this podcast, what is your second favorite podcast, if you have one that you would like to recommend or just shout out? It doesn't have to be about mental health.

Melodye:

It is about mental health. It's the MomWell podcast.

Dani:

MomWell. Nice.

Melodye:

Yes. I just really appreciate the conversations around perinatal mental health and just motherhood overall. It's really good. Yeah.

Emily:

Yes. Okay, are you currently binge watching, reading, listening to anything? Like, what do I add to my, like, I've finally gotten the kids to bed. I'm going to watch 10 minutes of a show and fall asleep on the couch. Like, what should I have in my queue?

Dani:

Or you're listening to a really good album? I don't know. I don't know. All of the above?

Melodye:

Okay, I'll go all of the above.

Dani:

Oh, okay.

Melodye:

Watching, we watch baseball right now. I love baseball.

Dani:

Who's your team?

Melodye:

The Rangers.

Dani:

Hang on, why do you say it like that?

Melodye:

I'm from Texas. I'm like...

Dani:

She's the biggest fan.

Melodye:

I'm having some feelings right now.

Dani:

Oh.

Melodye:

They're the only MLB team that does not participate in Pride Night, and I just found that out, and I'm very sad about that.

Emily:

Oh, I know. Yeah, they are.

Melodye:

Yeah. So I was like, well, that sucks. But I also don't like the Astros because they cheated like seven years ago.

Dani:

Melodye doesn't hold grudges.

Emily:

May I offer some alternatives we have the Baltimore Orioles, very pro pride, or the Seattle Mariners, also pro pride. Just throwing them out there.

Melodye:

Yeah, I do love the Mariners.

Dani:

Oh!

Melodye:

Yeah, I like that Orioles, too. I don't have like we are baseball like so we play fantasy baseball, my husband and I do, we've been playing for 13 years, yeah, so super fun

Emily:

Dani wants an invite.

Dani:

Well I've never played fantasy baseball. I've done football. Not to brag. I wasn't terrible.

Melodye:

Not to brag. I will have a conversation if you want to play fantasy baseball because my husband is the commissioner of our league.

Dani:

Oh, well, snap. I was never the commissioner.

Melodye:

No, I'm not. He is. So, yeah. So I'm like, I've got some players on the Mariners.

Dani:

Like Julio?

Melodye:

Yeah. He was on my team last year, but somebody's stolen from me this year in the draft.

Dani:

That's rude.

Melodye:

I was real salty about it. Yeah. I don't have anybody on the Orioles, but I'll still cheer for them.

Dani:

Do you do a live draft? This is a very slow lightning round. Okay. I'm like looking at the clock and I'm like, follow up. Is your fantasy baseball draft live?

Melodye:

Yes, it is. We do a snake draft.

Dani:

Oh, okay. Emily, do you know what that means?

Emily:

No.

Dani:

Okay. She's like, next question. Emily has fallen asleep.

Emily:

I'm like, Cal Ripken, next.

Melodye:

Yeah. There you go. That's who I've got. So we're watching, we just watch baseball right now. It's what's on after the kids go to bed when they're awake, whatever.

Dani:

I forgot what the question was. This is so funny.

Melodye:

Yeah, it was the binge thing. I am binge listening to Noah Kahan, The Great Divide. Are y'all Noah Kahn fans?

Dani:

I wasn't because I didn't know about him. Not because I didn't like his music. Now I am.

Melodye:

Now you are. Yeah, the whole thing. It is amazing. If y'all haven't watched the documentary, watch the documentary. I cried the whole time. Love him. It's on Netflix. It's called Out of My Body, I think. So, yeah, just so good. He was my whole personality for just a little bit because I watched the documentary like right after the album came out and I was like, I just can't do anything else.

Dani:

Melodye's out with the dogs writing songs.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

She had a guitar.

Melodye:

I did. Yeah, I wanted to be. I don't know how to play the guitar, but.

Dani:

Okay. She thought she knew how to play the guitar.

Melodye:

Then I'd be out there with the dogs.

Dani:

So, baseball, Noah Kahan, reading something?

Melodye:

Yeah, I'm reading the Red Rising series.

Emily:

I finally am at the end of the list on Libby, and I'm about to get it, Red Rising. I'm about to get it.

Dani:

Don't give anything away, Melodye.

Melodye:

I'm not going to say anything else then. I'm reading the third book right now.

Emily:

We'll have to compare notes after I catch up.

Melodye:

Yes, yes. Tell me after you get it because I want to talk to you about it. It's really popular, but I don't know many people who have read it. It's a series.

Dani:

Trilogy?

Melodye:

So I got the bundle on Libby, the first three books, and then apparently there's like three more. I don't know that I have what it takes, but I may. We're going to see how this one ends.

Emily:

That is a good call. If they wrap it up in a nice, neat little bow, sometimes I'm like, we're good.

Melodye:

We're fine. Like, I know you can keep going, but I think I'm good.

Dani:

Like, you were committed to watching the original three Star Wars movies, but the new three, you're like, eh, I mean, whatever.

Melodye:

Yeah. And it's funny because it actually has a little bit, I told my husband, it's like a mix of Star Wars and The Hunger Games. It's like.

Dani:

Oh, well, Emily would definitely be interested.

Emily:

I know. I was like, OK.

Melodye:

Got to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Dani:

Melodye, this is a very important question that I'm about to ask you. With an acknowledgement that there is nothing that always works with our kids consistently for 18 years or maybe even more than one day. Is there like a hack that's working well for you right now with any of your kids that's making something that is otherwise kind of hard, a little bit easier?

Melodye:

I'm going to make it fast.

Dani:

Okay. No. No.

Melodye:

It's like, no, I can't make it fast. It's a therapy thing. It comes from Daniel Siegel. I use his handbrain model. I taught my kids about how your brain works. We talk about flipping our lid. This is the bottom part of our brain, our downstairs brain. And this is our upstairs brain. This is where our emotions are. This is where our thoughts are. And sometimes when we get so upset, we flip our lid. And so one thing that can be helpful is, and like you said, not always, but is to say, hey, it looks like your lid has flipped or you're going to flip your lid. What do we need to do to close it? Vice versa. My kids have said that to me.

Dani:

Oh.

Melodye:

My oldest in particular is like, mom is about to flip her lid. because he is very attuned to me emotionally. And I'm like, yes, so that means I need to leave the room.

Emily:

You're like, I'm going to put myself in timeout, bye.

Melodye:

I know. We got to step away, my friends. Or I'll just say, I feel like I'm on the verge of flipping my lid. It's not always that calm, right? And then I'll be like, I need to step out of the room or I need to get a drink of cold water. I need to do something. So that's a thing that it doesn't work all the time because nothing does.

Dani:

No, but that's really great modeling.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

You know what's so interesting? The strategies we use to help our kids often help us.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Yeah. I actually learned that when I was doing play therapy with kids. Like, that was where that came from. And now I teach my clients all the time about flipping your lid.

Dani:

Thanks for that.

Melodye:

Yeah, you're welcome.

Emily:

Okay. What is one way that you are going to show yourself some radical love today?

Dani:

Anything's radical. Anything.

Melodye:

I don't know, man. I think I'm going to go read. Just give myself permission to read for a while. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't had much time this week and the times that I've planned to do it, I've ended up doing other things. So I'm going to do that.

Dani:

That sounds really lovely.

Melodye:

Yeah.

Dani:

Okay. Listen, if you were to choose a time machine, decide in your head what kind of time machine you're going to go in. Different for all of us. If you were to travel back in time and today you could say something to pre-recovery you, what would you say?

Melodye:

We're going to be fine. I would say you are a good mom or you're a good enough mom because that narrative was so strong, even out of the postpartum depression fog of just feeling like, and some of it is like a curse of a therapist. Like I'll say things or do things and I'm like, okay, well, there's your trauma wound that you can go talk to your therapist about in the future. So just being able to say you are a good mom, and mean that. She needed to hear that more. And I think I needed that more for myself because the people around me were trying to say it, but I didn't believe it.

Dani:

Oh, Melodye.

Emily:

That is a powerful, true thing.

Dani:

I had a little sticky note on my computer for a while, a quote from my therapist that said, start with good enough along those same lines.

Melodye:

My husband went to my kids' school. They do like a dad day. And one of the little boys at the lunch table looked at my husband and said, are you a good dad? And my husband looked at him and said, yeah, I'm a good dad. The little boy said, yeah, I thought so. And later my husband came home and he said, if one of the kids' friends asked you that, what would you say? And I said, I would say, I'm a good mom. I'm not a perfect mom, but I'm a good mom. And he was like, I'm so glad to hear you say that. I really didn't believe that for a long time. Even though I know I'm not perfect and I like screw up all the time and they're still going to talk to their therapist about me in the future, I do know I'm a good mom now.

Emily:

We hope they do talk to their therapists in the future, whether you are a therapist mom or not. We hope that they are going to therapy.

Melodye:

Yes.

Emily:

To be the best version of themselves.

Melodye:

Yeah. And reframing. So one of the therapists that I did see, what she kind of said was like, you're framing therapy as this negative thing. And I was like, oh, that's gross. Like, yeah, I am. Because it was like, I don't want them to have to go to therapy. And I don't want them to talk about me when they're in therapy. And I was like, wait a minute, I need to reframe that. Because that's not what I truly believe about therapy. But it was buying into this like narrative of being good and perfect and all those things. So yeah.

Dani:

Well, this part of the lightning round has hit me in the eyeballs.

Melodye:

I'm gonna go cry before I go read.

Emily:

Okay, well, since we're all dehydrating through our eyeballs.

Dani:

Great transition! I know what's coming, this is great

Emily:

How do you take your water? Bubbles, no bubbles, flavor, no flavor, do you have an emotional support water bottle?

Melodye:

Yes, I do.

Emily:

Give us the deets.

Dani:

Oh!

Melodye:

It's right here.

Dani:

Beautiful color.

Emily:

Turquoise

Dani:

It's like this turquoise-y

Melodye:

Turquoise-y I'll have another one, they trade out so they can be clean.

Dani:

Okay.

Melodye:

On the regular, it's just ice water. I want really cold, cold, cold ice water.

Emily:

Mm-hmm.

Melodye:

Yeah. Can't do the room temperature. I can. But, whatever.

Dani:

If you have to.

Melodye:

If I have to, I'll do it. But I won't do it happily.

Emily:

Uh-huh.

Melodye:

And then other than that, sparkling water.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melodye:

Makes me so happy. Yeah.

Emily:

Little fancy bubbles. Mm-hmm.

Dani:

Hits the spot.

Melodye:

Mm-hmm. It does. It does. Yeah.

Dani:

Melodye, if folks are listening and they're thinking, oh my gosh, how do I get a hold of her? Where should they go? Would you like nobody to contact you? Do you have a website, an email address? What do you think? I mean, home phone number? I'm kidding.

Melodye:

Yeah, address, your home address. Yeah. The easiest way is Maternal Mental Health of East Texas. I would like to say you could follow me on social media, but I don't do anything on social media.

Dani:

I would like to say that, but you may not.

Melodye:

But you may not. I mean, you can, but-

Emily:

It's going to be real boring for you.

Melodye:

It'll be boring. Yeah. But my website is wonderful. So they can find me at Maternal Mental Health of East Texas. And that has like email and phone number and all that kind of stuff.

Dani:

Perfect. We will drop links to all of that. All of the things that we mentioned in today's episode in the show notes. Emily, can you take us out?

Emily:

I would love to. Okay. Melodye, thank you so much for joining us, for sharing your story. I think it's always interesting when we have someone who, PSI found you. You didn't find PSI. And I mean, you would have eventually, let's be honest. But I think it's really a special story when we get to talk about like the way that we are all trying to reach and connect the dots. We want to connect with our people. PSI found you and now you're finding other people and connecting in your community.

Dani:

We didn't even talk about how she literally is doing that at a Climb this year too.

Melodye:

Oh yeah, doing a Climb. Yeah. And I run a PSI group. So.

Dani:

And you facilitate a group?

Melodye:

Yeah, I helped start the perinatal eating disorder group. So I did that last year with Megan. So yeah.

Dani:

We're dropping it in the show notes.

Melodye:

Okay.

Dani:

It is going to be a very healthy show notes section. Lots of great links. So check it out. And Melodye, we heart you. Thank you so much for being here.

Melodye:

I heart y'all too. I'm so glad to be here.

Dani:

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media, and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time, and well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

Head Shot

Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
Head Shot

Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host