MEGAN ROBERTS: Matrescence, Specialized Support Groups & Career Change

On today's episode, we're sitting down with our good friend and perinatal mental health certified PSI English Support Groups manager, Megan Roberts. She has created some absolute magic here at PSI with the help of the incredible Peer Support Services team by creating and offering over 50 free specialized support groups online every month. We'll chat about matrescence, why specialized support groups are so important, and how lived experience changed the trajectory of Megan's career. I belly laughed through our very lighthearted lightning round. So, you know, make sure you're not sitting in a library or anything while you're listening. Okay, without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend Megan.

Mentioned on today's episode:

• PSI's Online Peer Support Groups
• Podcast: Good Hang
• Watching: Love is Blind
• Reading: Broken Country
• Episode 31: DR. NICOLE PENSAK, PhD, PMH-C - I AM ONE Clinical Psychologist and PMHD Expert Who Was Rattled By Early Motherhood
• Contact Megan: groups@postpartum.net

Interested in sharing your story?
Fill out our podcast interest form here!

Questions about the I AM ONE Podcast?
Email Dani Giddens - dani@postpartum.net

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Transcript

Introduction | Matrescence & Postpartum Support Groups

Dani 0:00

Welcome to the I Am One podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with our good friend and perinatal mental health certified PSI English Support Groups manager, Megan Roberts. She has created some absolute magic here at PSI with the help of the incredible Peer Support Services team by creating and offering over 50 free specialized support groups online every month. We'll chat about matrescence, why specialized support groups are so important, and how lived experience changed the trajectory of Megan's career. I belly laughed through our very lighthearted lightning round. So, you know, make sure you're not sitting in a library or anything while you're listening. Okay, without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend Megan. Megan, welcome to the podcast studio. We are so, so thrilled to be spending a whole hour with you this morning. Definitely the best day of our week. Sorry, other days of the week. Um this is the best, so.

Emily 1:04

We have a favorite.

Dani 1:06

Yeah, we do. Because Megan's in the house. Thanks for being here.

Megan 1:10

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to hang out with y'all.

Emily 1:12

Us too.

Meet Megan Roberts (PSI Support Groups Manager)

Dani 1:13

Let's just jump right in. Meg, will you give us a little introduction to who you are?

Megan 1:18

Yeah, I'm Megan Roberts. Pronouns are she, her. I live in North Carolina, and I am PSI's English support groups program manager. I'm also a survivor of perinatal mood challenges. And let's see, I've got a husband, three kids, a dog, three cats, and four goldfish.

Dani 1:39

And a partridge in a pear tree.

Megan 1:41

Yes. Yes. And all the things.

Dani 1:43

Wow. Holy cow. Wait, how many pets is that? I didn't do the math.

Emily 1:48

Eight.

Megan 1:49

Eight. And don't, I was thinking, I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know the names of the goldfish. And if my children know that, I'm in big trouble. So don't tell them.

Dani 1:57

We won't say a thing.

Megan 1:59

Okay. Don't tell them.

Emily 2:01

That's why it's really helpful to like have a naming convention. So like all from the same book or all from the same fandom or something, right?

Megan 2:12

Yeah. But these fish came home as a surprise from the fair last year.

Dani 2:17

Oh!

Emily 2:17

Of course they did.

Megan 2:18

No one told me we were getting these fish. And I have kept them alive for a full year.

Emily 2:23

That's really hard to do.

Megan 2:25

I'm very proud, but I don't know their names.

Dani 2:27

Let's pause the podcast real quick and give Meg a round of applause for keeping fair fish alive.

Megan 2:33

For one whole year. Thank you very much.

Dani 2:36

If nothing else happens, this year I mean, like you can be proud of keeping fish alive.

Emily 2:40

W.

Dani 2:41

Yes, as our teenagers might say. W.

Megan 2:44

Big W.

Dani 2:48

Emily, would you like to ask the next question or should I ask the next question?

Emily 2:52

I'm ready. So you mentioned that you are a survivor. I'm guessing that perinatal mental health disorders have played a role in your life. Please elaborate.

Megan 3:02

Yeah, absolutely. So I have three children, but I had my first in 2014. At that time, I was actually an English professor. So I had a totally different career. Yes.

Dani 3:15

Sidebar. What kind of English? Like creative writing?

Megan 3:18

I did get to teach some creative writing and different classes, but I mainly taught, like, their first literature class, like basic rhetorical writing. I loved it. I love writing and teaching.

Dani 3:29

Cool.

Megan 3:30

So that's what I was doing when I got pregnant. Yeah. And I think I just thought I was gonna be this like all natural, crunchy, granola, perfect mom. Right? I was just gonna, like, lay in bed breastfeeding my baby, like, just glowing and very, very unrealistic expectations, a lot of pressure on myself without knowing it. Right?

Dani 3:58

Are you the oldest, Megan?

Megan 4:00

I'm not, I'm the youngest. Oh, okay, well.

Emily 4:03

Interesting.

Megan 4:04

Yes.

Dani 4:05

But a lot of pressure on yourself to do things perfectly.

Megan 4:08

Yes, for sure. And not even realizing that, right? But like all these things that were like, if I do this, this, this, this, this, this, it means I'm a good mom.

Dani 4:16

Oh. Totally tied to your value as a human.

Megan 4:19

A hundred percent. Yeah. So yeah, pregnancy was fine. Like physically, I did not feel well, but I was okay. I wouldn't say like I was having a mental health challenge. It just sucked.

Dani 4:31

Like uncomfortable, a little nauseous, or just...?

Megan 4:34

Yeah, super nauseous, super fatigued. I was okay. Like I wasn't having complicated feelings about the pregnancy or like bonding, but just like physically, it felt really bad.

Dani 4:46

Yeah.

Megan 4:47

So had wanted to have, like, a natural birth. That didn't happen. Ended up with a C-section. I would say for me, you know, it's so interesting, right? Trauma. Like for me, my C-section wasn't traumatic. I was just, I was so ready to just have that baby out.

Dani 5:04

Like if this means the baby is coming out, then high five, let's go.

Megan 5:09

Yes. Like it was a really long labor.

Dani 5:12

Yeah.

Megan 5:12

But I was pretty- I was really supported. You know, I'm sure that made the difference, right? So, like–

Dani 5:16

Yeah.

Megan 5:16

I think things that happened to me that happened to other people probably feel more traumatic because I was supported, I was heard, all of those things, right?

Dani 5:25

Yeah.

Megan 5:25

So that was okay, but then pretty immediately after my daughter arrived, I was sleep deprived. I went into it, you know. I had already been up for like 36 hours.

Dani 5:37

Oh yeah.

Emily 5:38

As babies do, yeah.

Megan 5:39

As babies do, had the C-section. Yeah, and so the sleep deprivation began. She was an extremely colicky baby.

Dani 5:49

Oh.

Megan 5:50

Shout out to my colic parents. My gosh.

Dani 5:53

That's hard for the kiddo. It's hard for the parents. It's like nobody knows what to do.

Megan 5:59

I don't know how you have a colicky baby and not have a mood disorder. It's torturous. Like, and it was so hard because people are like, all babies cry.

Dani 6:09

Uh, not like this though. This is different.

Megan 6:12

Do they scream for six hours? Like...

Emily 6:16

That was what I was gonna say.

Dani 6:17

Offering the breast or a bottle doesn't fix it. Changing the diaper doesn't fix it. You go through the Excel spreadsheet of all the things, you know, that could potentially help the baby.

Colic, High-Needs Babies & Postpartum Overwhelm

Megan 6:28

I had a list on the fridge. I was like, here are 15- Oh, yeah, I had that list. Here are 15 things we can do. I'm just gonna go through the list so that I stop telling myself I'm a terrible parent for not being able to soothe this baby.

Emily 6:40

Can we define, if one can, colic? Because I think like if you don't have a colicky baby, you don't know what you don't know.

Megan 6:51

You don't. I'm like, here I am. I'm pulling up our high needs PowerPoint from support groups.

Dani 6:56

Oh, ooh! Sliding that in, cool. All right.

Emily 6:59

Hey.

Megan 7:00

We have a group for parents of high needs babies, which also might mean colic.

Dani 7:05

Mm-hmm.

Emily 7:05

I mean, that could also include like medical conditions and things like that too, right?

Megan 7:09

It could. It definitely could. And there's a difference, right? So there's the period of purple crying, which almost all babies go through, right? So that's at like six to eight weeks is the peak of most babies crying, right? Most babies are difficult to soothe at that six to eight week mark.

Emily 7:27

Do we know why?

Megan 7:28

It's developmental. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but it's something, it's something developmental.

Emily 7:33

Good job using your lungs.

Megan 7:35

Yes, yes.

Dani 7:37

Purple crying is...?

Megan 7:39

They resist soothing. It seems like they're in pain. It's long lasting. It usually happens in the evening. So super, super normal. It's a thing I always tell parents because often everybody's there to help in those first two weeks.

Dani 7:54

Yeah.

Megan 7:55

If you get that, everybody goes home. And then at six weeks, I feel like that's when so many parents join our groups because it's like, what happened? My baby's so difficult and everybody's gone.

Emily 8:07

Yeah.

Dani 8:08

And I'm tired.

Megan 8:10

And I'm tired. And I've had accumulative sleep deprivation. And now I can't soothe my baby, right? So there's that, but then I would say colic is even more prolonged, right? It's not just that six to eight week point. So I think they say for at least three weeks in a row, for more than three hours a day, your baby is just crying uncontrollably and you cannot soothe them. They're fed, they're dry, it is for no reason. We don't really know what causes colic. People have hypotheses, like it's the digestive system, but we don't really know.

Emily 8:46

And sometimes solving that can help with fussiness, but sometimes it doesn't. Okay, so three hours in a day, is that three hours in a row or three hours total in the day?

Dani 9:01

These were not on the, uh, list of questions.

Megan 9:03

I'm not sure, but I think it's in a row. I want to say it's consecutive, but I might be wrong.

Dani 9:08

Okay. We'll double check that. Maybe we'll put the definition in the show notes.

Megan 9:12

But I do know it is evidence-based that having a colicky baby is a risk factor for a mood challenge.

Dani 9:19

Yes.

Emily 9:20

Absolutely.

Megan 9:20

Yeah.

Emily 9:21

I mean, it's a sensory overload.

Megan 9:23

Oh my gosh.

Emily 9:24

If you weren't sleep deprived, if you eventually found something in the spreadsheet of ways to solve fussiness, the screaming, the irritability, but it still would be three hours of getting screamed at.

Megan 9:39

Yes. Or more. Mine was more.

Emily 9:41

Who would feel okay after that every day for three weeks?

Megan 9:46

No, your nervous system is not okay. Not to mention the isolation factor. Well, at least I felt like I can't go anywhere with my baby.

Dani 9:55

Yeah. I mean, I really need to go to the grocery store right now, but I actually can't leave the house.

Megan 9:59

Because she's screaming.

Dani 10:01

I really want to take a shower right now, but can I leave her in the crib for five minutes, or...?

Megan 10:09

And I have to say this was, like, an area where informal peer support really helped me because my experience was when you go to providers with this, they really are just like, babies cry, it's a phase, it'll pass. And it's like, but I just need you to tell me how hard this is.

Dani 10:28

Yeah. Did you mention it to your provider?

Megan 10:31

Oh yeah, I mentioned it, but it was just like, uh, deal with it.

Dani 10:35

Yeah.

Megan 10:35

Which I guess, I mean, there's nothing they can do, but it was just very– no one was asking me about my mental health in regards to that. So I found a couple of, like, friends of friends who had had colicky babies, and they became like, that was actually like probably my first little bit of peer support. Like finding somebody who's like, no, I get it. This is torturous every day. And like having that and being like, and it ended. I promise it ended.

Dani 11:04

Yeah.

Megan 11:04

You know, it was really important to have that.

Dani 11:07

Yeah. It is important because in that moment, you're thinking, no, this is never gonna end. Kind of like when you think you're always gonna be pregnant and this baby's never gonna be born. When I told my early childhood, uh, educator, teacher that I thought my oldest was never gonna poop on the potty, and she was like, I promise you he's gonna poop on the potty before, you know, he graduates from high school. And I was like, nope, I don't believe you. I think you're lying. I'm sure that it feels in the moment like this baby is never going to be able to stop crying. I'm never gonna go to the grocery store, I'm never gonna shower. That's not true, but it feels so real and overwhelming in that moment, I'm sure, right?

Realizing It Wasn’t “Bad Parenting”

Megan 11:48

And when it's your first, which it was for me, it's also just like, well, I'm just not good at this. Right? Like, I feel like if it was my second or third, I could have made a comparison, but it was just like, no, you just can't soothe this baby. Now, having had two other babies, I'm like, well, I don't think it was a me thing.

Dani 12:06

There is no formula.

Emily 12:08

In fact, it was not me.

Megan 12:12

Yeah. But it was very much me at that time, like for myself. And that was really hard. Yeah.

Colic, Breastfeeding Challenges & Postpartum Anxiety

Dani 12:18

Yeah. In hindsight, you're like, this is a them problem, not a me problem, right? I'm trying everything, believe me. You had the list on the fridge. Oh, Meg. Yeah.

Megan 12:29

Yeah. So that, and so then colic really exacerbated trying to breastfeed. So that it made it really difficult because she was so dysregulated. I was so dysregulated, probably. So trying to breastfeed and her colic led to, like, extreme anxiety and panic. I had my first panic attacks postpartum with her. And yeah, insomnia, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, like extreme, extreme anxiety and panic. Mostly, yeah, from the colic and the breastfeeding and the no sleep. That combination.

Dani 13:05

Question about breastfeeding. If she wasn't able to like nurse, like, did you have a problem with like milk supply? And it was like added just another thing to your list of like, did you have to pump and, like, to keep things feeling manageable, or...?

Megan 13:20

I probably- I can't remember now. I think I started pumping at like six weeks for me was like a rock bottom point. And finally, I don't even remember who now. It wasn't a provider, maybe it was a lactation consultant. I'm not even sure. Finally, someone gave me permission. Like I needed someone to give me permission to be like, you can just pump. That was helpful. It's not easy to pump exclusively.

Dani 13:45

Yeah.

Emily 13:45

Right.

Megan 13:46

But she just needed that. Like it just was not working. So I pumped exclusively until she was five months and then switched to formula and like honestly, could finally enjoy my baby. For me, it took till like five to six months. So I started, like, hit rock bottom at six weeks. Five to six months began, you know, it wasn't like a light bulb went off, but just slowly began to be able to enjoy my baby. And I think a big part of that was switching to formula, starting medication. And so at six weeks was also when I found a local support group.

Dani 14:25

Awe. Hey, hey, peer support. So you had a couple people that were friends of friends that were like, yeah, girl, yeah, I hear you, I see you. Like, you're not alone. And then later on, um, not too much later on, you found like a local group in your area. You go in person?

Finding a Postpartum Support Group

Megan 14:43

Yeah, it was a local in-person group. It was called mom supporting moms. It's still around.

Dani 14:48

Awe.

Emily 14:49

Hey!

Megan 14:50

And I've never done anything like that. I always want to say to people, like, I went into that experience thinking, I don't want to do this, nothing is gonna help. Right? When you're feeling that, you're like, what the hell is this group gonna do for me? And like, but I'm only doing this because something's gotta change. I am in a deep abyss and like I'll try anything, but also this isn't gonna work. Those were my thoughts. So I went, I mean, my husband, like, had to push me out the door and I went, for sure. Um, with my- holding my screaming colicky baby, like while I'm like-

Dani 15:21

Like it was a gentle supportive push. Okay. It was a loving one. Like uh, not an actual push, like uh, little nudge, like you got this. This is gonna be good.

Megan 15:30

Yes. No, I'm so thankful for that push. Like, very thankful. It was just like those support groups– it wasn't like they made everything better because things were still really hard with my baby– but they gave me hope because I heard people who were further along than me. And I was like, oh my god, you seem kind of normal again. Like I remember thinking that, like, maybe it's possible to be slightly normal. Like–

Dani 15:59

Like, I'm gonna show up showered sometime in the future.

Megan 16:03

Yeah, yeah. It was just, it was at peer support for me. Those support groups were just life-giving. They were magical. All week I was holding on to Thursday night. Like I was like, I know.

Emily 16:16

Yes.

Dani 16:17

It's Wednesday, and you're like, okay,

Megan 16:19

I can make it.

Dani 16:20

tomorrow's the day I'm gonna be with my people.

Megan 16:24

Yes.

Dani 16:24

I'm gonna recharge the battery.

Megan 16:26

Yeah, I'm gonna take a breath. I'm gonna feel like there's hope. Like it was a huge part of my recovery. Like that peer support group, my partner for sure,

Dani 16:35

Uh-huh.

Megan 16:36

And medication were like my recipe for slowly but surely getting better. But I totally didn't think I thought, I mean, I just want to name this because people don't, like, I thought I made a terrible mistake.

Dani 16:47

Having a baby?

Megan 16:48

I thought this was a terrible decision. I'm not cut out for this. I shouldn't be a mother. Everyone lied to me. They thought I could do this, but I can't.

Dani 16:58

So did it feel like you were letting other people down and yourself or...?

Megan 17:02

A hundred percent. Like it was devastating to have those thoughts, I really believed them. Yeah.

Dani 17:08

Yeah, those are rude, rude thoughts.

Megan 17:10

It gets better. I don't feel that way anymore, you know? But no one could tell me that. I had to see that in the group. Like, that was the thing.

Dani 17:20

So I have a question about the support group. You were a little bit nervous the first time you went, and your husband was like, Megan, like, this is a good thing. You got this. Go out the door, get in the car, drive to support group. I don't know if you even remember. Do you have a memory? You might have been a little sleepy, so it might have not been stored in your brain. I don't know if you remember how it felt after you left the first time or what it felt like going other times after that. Did you need a nudge to go?

Megan 17:47

I didn't need a nudge. Like it was logistically sometimes hard to get out the door, right? Like it wasn't like it was always easy to get out the door.

Dani 17:55

Right.

Megan 17:55

But you know, kind of like exercising or whatever that is, that thing that you do, that maybe it's hard to get there, but like you feel so good after you did it.

Emily 18:04

Yeah.

Megan 18:04

The payoff was enough to keep me coming back because I think, you know, it's what we do in our groups, and it sounds so simple, but it's so helpful was to know, like, I wasn't alone, like, to look around in a room and be like, well, y'all seem like good moms.

Dani 18:21

Yeah.

Megan 18:21

So maybe...

Dani 18:22

Jury's still out. But maybe I might actually also be a good mom.

Megan 18:27

Yes. But I had to see that reflected in someone else.

Dani 18:31

Yes.

Emily 18:31

Yes. But once you realize that you fit in with that group, that you belong in that group, and you've already observed that the other people that are in it are identified by you as good moms. And then you realize that you're in the group, you're like, wait a minute, but I'm also in the good mom group.

Megan 18:53

Yes.

Emily 18:54

Right? Like...

Megan 18:55

Yeah, it's huge. It's huge because if not, like, I hope it's getting better. But like before that, it was just a secret, right? It's also like I'm not living in that secret anymore of like how bad I'm feeling. Yeah, it's that decreasing of shame, right? That's also happening.

Emily 19:13

Totally.

Dani 19:14

Okay, so you found an amazing support group, and that was a huge piece of the recovery puzzle, like, getting through this really hard time in parenting and like, you know, along with meds and- what was the other thing you mentioned? It was like meds, support group, and...

Megan 19:31

Partner, meds, support group. And I think I do want to say too, like all of the help I ended up getting was like from this underground network of women. Like it was not from providers, like the support group came from a woman at work who told my husband, right? Like it was things like that that got me to the treatment. Whereas my provider, I remember going in, and I'm not saying all providers, there's some wonderful providers. My provider asked me how I was feeling and said, Are you able- And I said, I don't know, I'm not feeling great. Like actually, I'm, like, kind of excited to be here at the doctor's and, like, away from my baby.

Dani 20:09

Yeah.

Megan 20:10

Like, I'm happy to be here. This is like a vacation.

Dani 20:12

Uh-huh.

Megan 20:14

So that was a red flag. And she goes, well, are you able to take a shower? And I was like, yeah, I can, I can take a shower. And she's like, then you're not depressed. That was my screening.

Dani 20:23

Oh wow.

Megan 20:24

Yeah. So it was definitely more this network of women and parents and moms that like got me to where I needed to be.

Dani 20:34

Yeah. I'm just remembering, like, just having a depressive episode and crying a lot in the shower. You can, in fact, be depressed and shower. Anyway.

Emily 20:46

I would hide in the shower.

Megan 20:48

Yeah.

Emily 20:48

And then I would invent, like, a third conditioning treatment to do in the same shower so that I literally didn't have to get out.

Megan 20:58

What if you're still doing that a little bit?

Emily 21:02

This is a judgment free zone.

Dani 21:04

Absolutely. If anybody needs to do that, tell them that it was prescribed by the I Am One podcast. Just kidding. We don't prescribe anything.

Emily 21:12

During the pandemic, I would go and sit with clothes on in an empty bathtub because I would be left alone.

Megan 21:22

Yes, yes.

Emily 21:23

And now they know. Okay.

Dani 21:27

Okay, everybody. This is a circle of trust.

Megan 21:30

Don't tell anyone.

Dani 21:31

Yeah. So how did it go after that? Like you, that was your first. Like, is that the main kind of experience that you wanted to talk about? I have other- I have lots of other questions, Meg.

Megan 21:40

Yeah.

Dani 21:40

I'm worried about jumping ahead prematurely.

Megan 21:44

I got help, went to the support group, got on medication. Things started to get better around five or six months. And then yeah, I'd say by like a year, I was like fully recovered. And then very hesitantly, warily frightened state, did I get pregnant again, like on purpose. It was planned. But I think what really helped me was number one, everything I had learned.

Emily 22:10

Yes.

Megan 22:10

And I really approached that pregnancy and that postpartum with my health is actually the priority. I told all my family, I became a fierce advocate for myself that second one. Like I was like, here's the deal. We're gonna pretend like this was a heart condition and like this might be life or death. Because I kind of felt that way.

Dani 22:33

Yeah.

Megan 22:33

And so here are all the things we have to do, and here are the things I have to do. And I just- I had a much different experience. I had a beautiful experience. Yeah, I'm so thankful. Yeah.

Emily 22:44

That's so good.

Dani 22:46

So I have a question about the professional side of things. So you were an English professor.

Megan 22:53

I was.

Dani 22:54

Then did you take time off work to be at home, or were you kind of like, at one point did you go back to work to do that again, or...?

Megan 23:02

Yeah.

Dani 23:02

Help us get to today.

Megan 23:04

I will.

Dani 23:05

I mean, I think we know the natural progression of your life experience has informed...

Emily 23:10

A career shift.

Dani 23:11

Yeah.

Megan 23:13

Huge career shift. So, well, and I'll just say there was a third baby in there. So I'll mention that. So, like I had the second one reluctantly, had a much better experience. When I was two months postpartum with the second, got custody of a family member's baby.

Dani 23:27

Wow.

Megan 23:28

All of a sudden had two babies.

Dani 23:29

Whoa.

Emily 23:30

Okay, what's the age difference between these two? Like, are they real close in age?

Megan 23:34

Two months apart.

Dani 23:35

Wow.

Emily 23:36

Okay. So twins.

Megan 23:37

Yes.

Emily 23:38

For all intents and purposes, right?

Becoming a Peer Support Group Facilitator

Megan 23:40

Yes. And I always like to tell people, like, having two babies, but being okay in my mental health was a breeze compared to my first baby.

Dani 23:50

Wow.

Megan 23:50

Like it was so dark and difficult. And it's not to say, that wasn't easy, but like because I was on medication, I was doing all the things to take care of myself, like, I could do it. And I still look back at it as like a beautiful time. But yeah, so that was wild. So all of a sudden I had three kids.

Dani 24:06

Here we are. Three kids.

Megan 24:08

Three kids. And so in between, so after my first, once I was recovered, I started volunteering with that support group. So I started facilitating.

Dani 24:17

Cool.

Megan 24:17

Yeah.

Dani 24:18

Wow, you became a facilitator. Cool.

Megan 24:20

I became a facilitator. I became a volunteer. And it was just like it just became my passion and my calling. Like I was obsessed with facilitating, with groups. I was still teaching. So I was still a professor. Eventually I managed that support group that really, like, saved my life. And so that was such a beautiful, I know, full circle moment. So managed that. I'm still somehow being a professor. I'm really wanting to change careers, right?

Dani 24:51

Yeah.

Changing Careers in Perinatal Mental Health

Megan 24:51

It's that difficult point of like I have to have my foot in both doors. I mean, I loved it. And so eventually actually merged that support group program with a peer mentor program. And it was actually just like one big program that I managed. And it's still going today. And so that's really cool. But yeah, eventually, I guess four years ago now, I already knew Carrie Banks, who's the director of PSI's Peer Support Services. So I knew Carrie just professionally from having worked in this local organization. And we were actually on the phone. And then somehow that conversation turned into me interviewing for the PSI support group's program manager position. And I honestly would not have left that job for anybody but PSI. I loved what I was doing, but I was like, if I can impact even more folks, if I can do it on this bigger scale, I had really big dreams about the types of groups I wanted to create. I knew I couldn't do that locally.

Emily 25:51

Like, let's diversify this portfolio. You know what I'm saying? Like...

Dani 25:55

And if we may take a turn tooting Megan's horn, the number of support groups since Megan has come on at PSI has grown exponentially. It's bananas.

Megan 26:11

Thank you.

Dani 26:12

Like when you started, how many support groups were there?

Megan 26:14

Um...

Emily 26:15

Yeah, let's draw the curve.

Growing PSI’s Online Postpartum Support Groups

Dani 26:17

Yeah, it's like...

Megan 26:18

This is an estimate, right? So please don't quote me on this. I think not more than like twenty, and now we have like over 50.

Dani 26:29

Yeah. Specialized support groups that are appropriate for lots of different experiences. Do people recommend like groups? Are they like, man, I went to this one support group, but I really wish, I had a hard time hearing this kind of experience. It's kind of adjacent to mine, but like, would it be possible to have this kind of support group that might be more trauma informed for my experience? Kind of is that...

Megan 26:51

Yeah, yeah. I mean, our best support group ideas and most successful ideas come from our group members. So, I mean, I would say I'm thinking about a few things. Number one, like, are we the ones to do this? Like, is this within our realm? If there's somebody already doing it well, do we even need to recreate that? And we get feedback every single session, we ask for feedback. And every week I read every piece of that feedback. And we're, I think we're very responsive to it. We're always changing, improving things, and I'm listening to their experiences. And that's how groups like stillbirth and early infant loss are created. It's like, wait a minute, this specific type of loss, these folks really need to be together. Or black moms in loss, right? That's how that group was created.

Dani 27:36

Because stillbirth in loss is very different than, I don't know, like loss at a different stage of pregnancy, right?

Megan 27:43

Yeah. They're both loss. It's hard. They're both lost, they're both grieving. We want to honor all losses. And it can be really difficult for folks not to make comparisons. That's just natural. And so when you're in a group where you're taking that element out, just basically honestly, the more specific the group, you can just tell the higher the numbers are, the more retention we have.

Dani 28:08

Yeah.

Emily 28:08

Yeah.

Megan 28:09

That's what people want.

Dani 28:10

And what's really cool about it too is that if you find a group that is very specific to your experience, you are going into that group with people who get you, like really, really get you.

Megan 28:22

Yeah. I mean, when you're going into termination for medical reasons group, which is another like really well attended, special, special space, there's not many other places you can go and somebody can say, Yes, I had a trisomy 18 diagnosis too. When you're getting on that level of similarity, there's something really special about that.

Dani 28:44

Wow.

Emily 28:44

I mean, to be able to have the shared experience of whatever it is, whether it's a diagnosis, whether it's a particular type of loss, whether it's like lived experience of microaggressions, right? Like any of these things are things that once you can circumvent needing to explain them,

Megan 29:05

Yes.

Emily 29:06

there's no need to justify that that was difficult when you remove the need to explain it at all, right? It's really powerful stuff.

Megan 29:17

Yeah. That's what we hear definitely from those types of group, black moms in loss, our Asian moms group. Like, I don't have to explain the nuances here. And I don't have to worry about being judged or the stigma either. Like, yeah, those things are so important.

Dani 29:36

Get those out of the way and just get to talking about how you're feeling and what's going on.

Megan 29:39

Yeah.

Dani 29:40

Well, we're gonna have a very special episode just about PSI's online English support groups with lovely Kristina Ledlow that will be coming out soon?

Emily 29:52

I think so.

Megan 29:52

Let's pause and I just have to say shout out Kristina.

Dani 29:56

Okay.

Emily 29:57

Yes.

Megan 29:57

Kristina Ledlow is the best.

Dani 30:00

Oh!

Emily 30:01

You heard it here. Maybe not first though. I don't know.

Megan 30:04

I love her. She's one of our long time facilitators. She teaches our postpartum planning class and she is a powerhouse like– makes me proud to be a woman– woman. I love her so much. Yes.

Dani 30:18

She's pretty fab.

Megan 30:19

Yes.

Dani 30:20

Uh, for folks that are interested, whether it's parents, support people, providers. If you want to know more about PSI's online support groups in English, there will be an episode dedicated just to that. But since we're talking about it, let's just hit like some big things, Meg. Like they are free for anybody. They're online. They are free. They're no charge, so they're available to anybody. This is great for parents to know. This is great for providers to know so that they can tell their patients, right?

Megan 30:48

Yeah, they're free. They're online, they're open and ongoing. I would categorize our support groups as like three different buckets. We have our perinatal groups. Those are things like OCD moms, general pregnancy mood support, black moms connect. Then we have loss, loss and grief groups. Those are groups like early loss or stillbirth and infant loss. And then we have our termination for medical reasons and after abortion support groups. So when we say perinatal, we mean all of those things really.

Dani 31:19

Pregnancy, postpartum, yeah.

Megan 31:21

Yeah. So we have a wide variety of groups. I would just say I think we provide a really quality service that our facilitators are really well trained. But we're not diagnosing anybody, we're not giving advice. We're just like holding space for these parents to connect.

Dani 31:40

And the groups are not just for the birthing parent, they're for your partner.

Megan 31:45

Yeah, pay attention to the group title. They're all different. Like we have groups for dads, groups for all parents, gestational, non-gestational. We do have groups for moms. Everybody is included. We also have our queer and trans parent group.

Dani 32:00

Yes. Check it out. We'll put a link to PSI's online support groups in the show notes.

Megan 32:06

Yeah, and what I'd say too is like it's honestly like no pressure. Like it's online, it's free. If you don't like it, you don't have to stay. If you love it, come back, you know? Like but it's really there's hardly any stake. It's very low pressure. People can also always reach out to me because we do have so many groups. I think it can be overwhelming to be like, well, what's the one for me?

Dani 32:29

Yes.

Megan 32:30

So I'm always happy to help folks navigate that. And how should they get a hold of you? It's groups@postpartum.net.

Dani 32:38

And follow-up question. This is answered in the special episode, but I just- while we're here talking about it, can folks attend more than one group or do they have to pick one?

Megan 32:46

No. The only day we don't have groups are Saturdays.

Dani 32:49

Okay.

Megan 32:49

But people come, there are people who come every single day of the week.

Dani 32:52

That's great. If that's what you need, then great. That's what we're here for.

Emily 32:56

One of the things we talked about with Kristina was we need a quiz, like an optional quiz that people could take. Like sort me into my group.

Megan 33:08

I like that. Yes.

Emily 33:09

Because there's always gonna be groups that are broad enough that anyone who identifies with the description can join. And then there are gonna be groups that are like filtered, more like specific. So it's gonna be like the description is gonna have a lot more in it that you're like, okay, yes to that, and yes to that, and yes to that. Oh, okay, like I can go to this one too, right? We need a quiz.

Dani 33:38

Oh, so you're saying, Megan, make a quiz.

Megan 33:41

Um...

Emily 33:42

I'm saying I want a quiz to just appear.

Dani 33:46

Oh, okay.

Megan 33:48

I'm like, I definitely don't know how to do that, but I could try to find out who does.

Dani 33:53

But if you have questions about which support group might be the best you're saying, you'd be happy to chat with somebody if they want to shoot you an email. Okay.

Emily 34:01

If someone emails you, what should they tell you? Like if they're like, hey, help me find a group, like what are the things that-

Megan 34:07

Yeah.

Emily 34:08

if they wanted to just include it in that first email, what should they say?

How to Find the Right Postpartum Support Group

Megan 34:11

Yeah. And definitely like I have helped seekers do that. I also have lots of therapists. Like they'll say, hey, I have a client with this going on. Would this be a good fit? Right? Like they're willing to advocate for their client, which is great. So I think just kind of telling me where you are, like in your phase in life. Are you postpartum? Are you pregnant? Are you having fertility challenges? If you've had a loss, like what type of loss is really helpful. But I can also ask follow-up questions, you know. I kind of know, know what to ask.

Dani 34:37

Yeah.

Megan 34:38

But I'm always, always like people are coming to us like sleep deprived and grieving,

Dani 34:42

Yeah.

Megan 34:42

Struggling. And like, I want to help get you to the right spot.

Dani 34:47

Yeah, you might not know the question– the information that you need to give to Meg. And if she has more questions, she'll ask them.

Megan 34:55

Oh, I will. Yeah. And if we don't have the right fit, like I really try to go and find it. You know, it doesn't always exist, but like maybe it's somebody else. Like, I just want you to get the best support for you.

Dani 35:08

Yeah.

Emily 35:08

Yeah.

Dani 35:09

Wow, you're pretty incredible, Meg.

Megan 35:11

Thanks.

Dani 35:12

Thanks for doing all this.

Megan 35:14

I feel really thankful to get to do this job. It's like so rewarding. And not to say it's not challenging, it is challenging. And I also just like have the most amazing team. So shout out to my support groups team. Like, I tend to be like a big thinker and dreamer. That's how all these new groups happen. And behind that are some real detail-oriented people who help me so much.

Dani 35:42

Shout out to the support groups team.

Megan 35:44

Yes.

Lightning Round

Dani 35:44

Oh, yeah. Awesome. Well, is there anything that you wanted to mention, Megan, before we move on to the very serious lightning round.

Emily 35:56

And also very fast lightning round.

Dani 35:58

It's serious and fast. We're nodding our heads, no.

Megan 36:01

No.

Dani 36:01

That's not true.

Emily 36:02

Okay, go. This is shaking. We're shaking our heads no.

Dani 36:05

Yeah. Sorry, nodding. Yes, shaking. No. Okay.

Megan 36:08

I don't know if she'll ever come on the podcast. I just want to give a shout out to Carrie Banks, my supervisor.

Dani 36:17

We've been trying.

Megan 36:18

So,

Emily 36:19

I've been. Mm-hmm.

Megan 36:20

Carrie's very humble and she might not come, but I would like to say she is getting things done. You know, we have some difficult jobs, and she makes me feel so supported in my job. And yeah, I'm gonna tear up. Like she's just the best boss ever, and she comes to this work with her own lived experience, and you see that in everything that she does, so.

Dani 36:46

No pressure, Carrie. But we'll see you in the podcast studio.

Megan 36:51

No pressure.

Emily 36:52

Carrie, you don't have to come tell your whole story, but you could come and talk about peer support. I'm just saying.

Megan 37:00

Yes, she should. But if she doesn't, I'm like, we just have to talk about her because shout out Carrie Banks. Mm-hmm. She's a big part of this. Yeah.

Dani 37:09

Well, thanks for mentioning that. I think that it's important. Thanks.

Megan 37:12

Yeah, you can cut it if you want to. It was kind of a tangent.

Emily 37:14

Oh no, we're leaving it in and tagging her on the internet for sure. Ready for a lightning round?

Dani 37:22

Let's do this.

Megan 37:22

Let's do it.

Dani 37:25

Megan. Besides this podcast, what is your favorite, other, like second maybe favorite podcast? Doesn't have to be perinatal mental health related. It could be. Up to you.

Megan 37:36

No, it's definitely not because I'm doing that all day every night.

Dani 37:40

That's a healthy boundary.

Emily 37:41

Yeah.

Megan 37:42

I love podcasts. So this is tough for me. But right now, with you know, the state of the world, I need some light podcast listening. I am obsessed with Amy Poehler's Good Hang.

Dani 37:55

Oh.

Megan 37:55

Y'all listen to that?

Dani 37:56

Yes!

Megan 37:58

It's just like hanging out with a bunch, usually funny women. Sometimes she has men on there, but like I just love her. It makes me laugh. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Like, I love that podcast.

Emily 38:09

Yeah.

Dani 38:10

I love a podcast that makes me laugh too.

Megan 38:12

Mm-hmm.

Dani 38:13

Mm-hmm.

Megan 38:13

Yes. Recommend that one if you just need to have a good hang with somebody.

Dani 38:17

Yeah. Great suggestion.

Emily 38:19

Okay. Are you currently binge watching or reading or like listening to anything good? Because I need to always have a next in the queue.

Megan 38:29

Mm-hmm. Yes. So I love trashy reality TV.

Dani 38:36

I'm taking notes.

Megan 38:38

So I, because they're just constantly coming out, you can just binge watch Love is Blind all the time. Like I don't think they ever stop.

Emily 38:46

Do you have a favorite season?

Megan 38:48

I'm not good at remembering that stuff. I really like the one- shout out to Freddie in the- whatever that one was. UK Freddie is, ooh, that was a fave.

Emily 38:57

Okay.

Dani 38:57

Okay.

Megan 38:58

The current one is like, it's Denver. It is a train wreck.

Dani 39:03

Oh, sorry, Denver.

Megan 39:04

I know. I'm like, guys. You want to look away, but you can't.

Dani 39:10

You're like, no, you're just hiding behind your eyes, but actually looking between your fingers and watching it.

Megan 39:15

Yes. If you're watching Love is Blind: Denver, like, reach out. We need a support group. Like, I need to talk.

Dani 39:23

PSI's next support group, viewers of Love is Blind: Denver.

Megan 39:28

Yes. I need to talk about it with somebody. We're not okay.

Dani 39:35

Also, we're here to say you're not alone.

Megan 39:40

I'm like, I gotta get on Reddit soon or something. Like, I gotta talk to somebody.

Dani 39:44

Okay. So is that your suggestion? Love is blind?

Megan 39:47

Uh I mean I'm not suggesting it. I'm binging it.

Dani 39:51

Oh, okay. You're just saying, you're just saying watch at your own risk.

Emily 39:55

But if we if we need something in our queue, we can consider Love is Blind.

Megan 40:02

If you want to feel good about your own life, watch Love is Blind: Denver.

Dani 40:09

If you think you're doing life poorly, check that out.

Emily 40:14

I might actually need a little bit of that. So I will consider it.

Megan 40:17

You're gonna feel like I'm so evolved and such a good human. Like, if you are.

Dani 40:23

Sorry, everybody on Love is Blind: Denver.

Megan 40:25

I will make a recommendation of like a real, like you should do this.

Dani 40:29

Yes.

Megan 40:30

My favorite book of the year so far is- I love to read too, so I'm not just watching trashy TV.

Emily 40:36

Oh, I follow you on Goodreads. I am a fan.

Megan 40:39

Thank you.

Emily 40:40

Continue.

Megan 40:43

I love that. I didn't know you were stalking me.

Dani 40:45

Megan's like flushed. Like, whoa. Okay. Cool.

Megan 40:52

It's called Broken Country by Claire Leslie-

Emily 40:56

Oh my God. You just posted about this like a couple- like a week ago or something. And I was like, well, that sounds really interesting.

Megan 41:03

I could not put it down. Like,

Emily 41:06

Okay.

Megan 41:06

it's so good. The writing's good. It feels like it's gonna be this very quiet book. Like it's set kind of on this farm and then it is not quiet. It's good.

Dani 41:14

Like buckle up.

Megan 41:16

Buckle up.

Dani 41:16

Who wrote it?

Megan 41:18

Claire Leslie Hall.

Dani 41:20

Okay. We will put a link to all these things in the show notes. Right below Love is Blind: Denver, I'll put a link to Broken Country.

Megan 41:31

Yes.

Dani 41:31

Okay. Can you share like a really great parenting hack that you have? We know, and we are acknowledging that there is not one thing that will work for all parents and all kids. But is there something like special you do to like hack parenting?

Megan 41:45

So no, right? There's no- if there was an easy hack. If there was an easy hack, I would be a billionaire. There's not one. Spoiler. That'd be great though. My sister-in-law taught me this one. And this is helpful to both say to your kids and say to yourself. And it's two words, which is just try again.

Dani 42:05

Oh, try again.

Megan 42:07

So when they do something that is really not the behavior that you would hope that they would have, instead of getting pissed off or making them feel bad or like whatever, guilty, right? Whatever those maybe default behaviors might be, sometimes it is really simple as saying, like, hey, let's try that again. Under that means I know that that wasn't your best self. And I want to give you another opportunity before I even say anything else.

Emily 42:34

Because you believe it's there.

Megan 42:36

Yes. It doesn't always work, but when you can like take that beat and be like, hey, I'm gonna assume the best here. Try again, and then I do it to myself. Like maybe I have a reaction that I don't like or behavior. I'll go, you know what? I want to try that again. Let me back up.

Dani 42:53

Do you say that out loud to the kids?

Megan 42:55

Yeah.

Dani 42:55

I'm gonna try that again. That didn't come out the way.

Megan 42:58

That was actually not what I meant to do. I don't like that. Let me try again. So try again as a parenting hat.

Dani 43:05

I love that.

Megan 43:06

And then snacks, snacks, all the snacks.

Dani 43:09

Oh, like have lots of snacks. Hey Meg, can I offer a reflection?

Emily 43:15

Okay.

Megan 43:16

Yeah, thank you.

Dani 43:17

Support group facilitator.

Emily 43:19

Okay.

Dani 43:19

I just want to say something quickly about try again. It really encourages a growth mindset, and that is so awesome. That idea that like we're not an expert at whatever we're doing yet.

Megan 43:30

Yet.

Dani 43:31

And it really kind of cuts off the opportunity for negative self-talk and whatever, you know, to kind of like join the party. It's like, nope, I'm gonna try this again.

Megan 43:41

Yeah.

Emily 43:42

It's do better, but without the trauma.

Megan 43:45

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, like, yeah, it's particularly helpful for our maybe neurodivergent kids who have some impulse control challenges, so.

Dani 43:57

I got some of those. I am one of those. I'm the neurodivergent kid with impulse control problems.

Megan 44:06

So for them in particular, because you just kind of know you're like, you really didn't mean to do that. You know, like so just like mmm let's try again, kind of like slow you down. Let's think about this for a minute.

Dani 44:20

Do you have to say it with a calm voice too? Like, no reaction. Oh, let's try again. That probably helps too.

Megan 44:26

Try again. Yeah. And I'm not saying I do it all the time. I'm like far from perfect.

Emily 44:31

Sometimes you're like, what were you thinking?

Megan 44:33

Oh, 100%.

Dani 44:34

Sorry, let me try again.

Megan 44:36

You still don't have your shoes on? Like, yes. But in those moments, I just like a simple phrase like that. That's it.

Dani 44:45

And fewer words, the fewer words, the better. I mean, the number of times I've gone, well, I don't know if that was a good idea because I mean, after like three words, the kids are just hearing, you know, keep it simple. Try again.

Megan 45:00

Try again. And then if you try again and you kind of have a better behavior, it's like, it's done. We don't have to do anything else. That's it. Moving on.

Emily 45:07

Yeah. That's a great suggestion. Thanks I'm going to write that down and like frame it and put it like everywhere.

Dani 45:13

On the whiteboard by the kitchen table.

Megan 45:16

Yeah, it's really good for ourselves too. Yes.

Emily 45:19

Yeah. Okay. What's one way that you are going to show yourself some radical love today?

Megan 45:25

So I take like sometimes an embarrassing number of baths in a day.

Dani 45:32

Oh. Oh, true confessions. It's like a special part of the episode.

Megan 45:37

Yes. You can like measure how how maybe well or not well I'm doing, but on like a really hard day. Like bless my husband for not being like, so this is your third bath today.

Emily 45:54

Like danger zone.

Megan 45:56

Yes.

Emily 45:57

Oh my God. You know Fit Dad? Like, and he's like, did you blah blah blah? And then it's like R I P himself because he said things that he shouldn't have said.

Megan 46:05

Uh-huh.

Emily 46:05

I feel like you gotta know those things that you don't say. And your partner.

Megan 46:10

Yeah.

Emily 46:11

Not saying that, That's smart. That's good self-preservation.

Megan 46:15

Yes. It is. It is. He knows it's needed. Like he's like, it's just essential for me. So I will, I at least take one bath every evening, like I take a bath.

Dani 46:24

Oh.

Megan 46:24

Every night. I'm gonna do that today. But if it's like, like for me, like on my lunch break, I might be like, I'm taking a bath.

Dani 46:33

Like not just in the evening, that's kind of like your routine, your ritual.

Megan 46:39

It is.

Dani 46:39

you know,

Megan 46:39

It is.

Dani 46:40

But in the middle of a day, for example.

Megan 46:42

It's a reset.

Dani 46:43

It's a reset? Yeah.

Megan 46:44

It's a reset for me. If it's like, oh my gosh, I'm overwhelmed, I'm overstimulated, like whatever it is, like it just always works. Like this is ironic because Sylvia Plath said this, and we know how things turned out for Sylvia Plath. So like, but she said there- but she said there must be a few things that hot baths can't cure, but I don't know any of them.

Emily 47:06

Yep.

Megan 47:07

And that's been the case for me. I mean, it it's not gonna solve things forever, but it might get me through the next like five hours.

Dani 47:14

And if that's what you need, great.

Emily 47:16

Sometimes that's all it takes.

Dani 47:17

Yeah.

Megan 47:18

Yep. So definitely hot baths. That's it. And then I like lots of like accoutrements to my bath. I might have like epsom salts, or I might have like bubble baths, or like–

Dani 47:27

Is it always the same every night? Is it always bubbles? Is it like...

Megan 47:31

No, I'm gonna mix it up.

Dani 47:33

Okay.

Megan 47:33

I'm gonna mix it up. Yeah.

Emily 47:34

So it's like a magic cauldron. Like you're throwing things in there and like-

Megan 47:38

I am, yes. And it is very hot. Everyone in my family's like, I don't know how you're in that. Like it's hot.

Emily 47:46

I relate to everything that you are saying. So much.

Megan 47:51

So you're a bath taker?

Emily 47:52

Oh yeah.

Megan 47:53

Yay.

Emily 47:54

Oh yeah.

Megan 47:54

Some people hate, like it's a love or hate thing, baths. Like some people are like, that's gross. You're sitting in your own dirt. Is that you, Dani?

Emily 48:03

Probably.

Dani 48:03

Listen.

Emily 48:04

Look at that face.

Dani 48:05

In my defense. I get hot, okay? Like, give me three minutes, and I'm like, oh, okay. I'm having a hot flash.

Emily 48:14

That's why the bathtub must go under the window so that in the winter you can open the window and get like the cold air blow. You know what I mean? Like balance it.

Megan 48:23

Okay, that's exciting. You just added something for me there.

Emily 48:26

You're welcome. I don't know if it's cold enough for you tonight for that, but think about it.

Megan 48:30

I'm definitely doing that.

Dani 48:32

And accoutrement you can add to your like menu.

Emily 48:35

Cold air.

Dani 48:36

Yeah.

Megan 48:37

I'm really excited about it. I'm not lying.

Dani 48:41

Next thing we know, Megan's gonna be like out of office. Get back to me tomorrow. I'll be returning emails starting at 9 a.m. tomorrow morning.

Megan 48:51

I mean, I'm just saying if I'm in a meeting with my camera off, maybe I'm in the bath.

Dani 48:56

Maybe not.

Megan 48:57

You don't know. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not.

Dani 49:00

Okay.

Megan 49:00

I'm joking. I'm not. But I want to be.

Dani 49:05

Mentally, I'm in the bathtub.

Megan 49:07

Yes.

Dani 49:08

Actually, I got my extra screen.

Megan 49:11

Yes.

Dani 49:11

16 Excel spreadsheets open.

Emily 49:14

And I'm eating.

Dani 49:15

Yeah.

Megan 49:16

Yeah. I'm always eating and meetings, y'all.

Dani 49:19

Yeah, yeah.

Megan 49:20

Actually, I was eating and this before we recorded.

Dani 49:22

Yeah.

Emily 49:23

I think we should normalize that.

Dani 49:24

Megan had an apple so she didn't get hangry with us.

Emily 49:27

Basic self-care.

Megan 49:28

Yeah. That's right. I'm taking care of myself, eating in meetings.

Dani 49:32

Mm-hmm. Okay, Megan, let's hop into a time machine. I would pick a DeLorean. Pick a time machine of your choice. We are going to go back in time. What is one thing that today you wishes you could tell pre-recovery you?

Megan 49:48

I wish... I love that you took the deep breath.

Dani 49:53

Sorry. You're welcome. I don't know.

Megan 49:57

I wish that, right? Like it's not just something I want to have told myself one time, but I want this to be the message that I had received forever, right? Which is matrescence. I wish I knew about matrescence. I wish someone had described becoming a mom as this evolution that with any evolution and transformation, it's going to take years. It's going to be uncomfortable. It's going to shift your identity. Like, I wish that's how we spoke about parenthood and motherhood. Because part of my struggle and so many is like my expectations were so far from reality.

Dani 50:39

Yeah.

Megan 50:40

Yeah.

Emily 50:41

I have a follow-up question. First, I want to hear what your time machine is. But second of all, um, do you think that this expectation versus reality of the shift into motherhood has anything to do with the stigmatization of motherhood changed you?

Megan 50:58

Oh, for sure.

Emily 50:59

Like it's supposed to.

Megan 51:01

100%. 100%. I mean, I feel like we are still currently in a race to prove how little motherhood can change us.

Emily 51:10

Yes. 12 out of 12.

Megan 51:12

That is the message. The message is you are a success if this doesn't change you.

Emily 51:17

Which is the opposite of reality.

Megan 51:20

Yes, it's the opposite. I mean, so I want the opposite of that message, which is I mean, it sounds negative, but honestly, I wish somebody had told me like this is gonna shatter your world in all the good ways. In all these wonderful ways and in extremely difficult ways that are gonna make you grow. Are you ready to grow?

Dani 51:37

Yeah.

Megan 51:38

That's what we should be saying about like parenthood and motherhood.

Emily 51:42

If we look at it like someone who's a freshman in high school or college and their interests and their level of experience and the things that they're confident in and the knowledge that they have and who they are when they graduate, and we like just side by side compare, there's a huge difference. And those are both similar to this type of transition, but we're expecting no change.

Megan 52:08

Right.

Dani 52:08

Like you wouldn't expect that from our kids, you wouldn't expect that from-

Emily 52:12

Yes. Like if my freshman was the same exact person when they left for college or graduated from college or whatever, I'd be like, Whoa, what have you been doing this whole time?

Megan 52:24

Yeah. And it's like, actually, we want you to be even better, but no growing pains. Don't show any of that. Right?

Emily 52:34

Right.

Megan 52:34

Don't make it messy, just get there somehow.

Emily 52:37

Right.

Megan 52:37

I like to talk about that, like in our support groups. That's not like a formal piece of our psychoeducation, but I think when you teach parents about that evolution, it's such a relief to them. And they often have these like aha moment of like, oh, and they can start to see themselves in that. And I think it's a really powerful message.

Dani 53:00

Yeah. I could keep talking about this, but...

Megan 53:03

I know. Have y'all had an episode on matrescence yet? You should.

Emily 53:08

No. We talked to Dr. Nikki Pensak, who wrote a book that included the concept of matrescence as part of the through line. Yeah.

Megan 53:18

Oh, cool, cool, cool.

Dani 53:19

Yeah, it was really cool.

Emily 53:20

Cause she was like, you know, uh, employers, if they're not seeing this as an opportunity, are missing, just missing it. Right? Like employees are primed for big growth. So if you go like, oh, well, hurry up and get back to work and do everything exactly the same as you did it before, like you've missed an opportunity.

Megan 53:42

I love that framing. I've never heard that, that's really cool. Well, we should link that episode. I'm doing the podcasting.

Dani 53:49

Oh. Oh, we have a third, we have a third podcast host. Thank you. That's great.

Emily 53:54

Okay, but next question. How do you take your water?

Dani 53:57

We need to make sure that you're staying hydrated.

Megan 54:00

So I'm just gonna tell you there's a whole routine. There's a whole lineup. There's a whole lineup.

Dani 54:05

Okay.

Megan 54:05

So I'll just take you through my lineup. First is hot coffee that has to happen first thing.

Dani 54:10

Solid.

Megan 54:10

Hot coffee. Right now, we're putting some pumpkin spice creamer in that because I'm basic. I need that.

Emily 54:16

Me too!

Megan 54:17

Then we're doing some ice water. We gotta hit with some ice water, having like some good- lots of ice water. Then lunchtime, I'm gonna need a bubbly water.

Dani 54:26

Oh.

Megan 54:26

Yeah. Then depending on how the day is, I might have an iced coffee after that.

Dani 54:32

Okay.

Megan 54:32

And then I'm having lots more ice water.

Dani 54:35

Wow. You're doing a great job staying hydrated.

Megan 54:38

Mm-hmm.

Emily 54:38

So you're watching Love is Blind and like pounding ice water is what you're saying.

Dani 54:43

Like, wow, I was not prepared for that. I need to get hydrated.

Megan 54:46

I look forward to all my little drinks throughout the day. I'm like, oh, it's almost time for my, you know, like it's my- I love it. I love all the different beverages.

Dani 54:55

Megan, way to take care of your body.

Megan 54:58

Shout out to Trader Joe's Lemon Ginger Bubbly Water. If you haven't had it.

Emily 55:04

That's new. I have to go. I'm going right now. Bye.

Megan 55:07

I have a problem. Like, I have to go in there. Trader Joe's Lemon Ginger, try it. Get back to me.

Dani 55:13

Trader Joe's, sponsor us. Let's get everybody some lemon ginger sparkling water.

Megan 55:17

Yeah, so good.

Emily 55:18

Moms with little kids love Trader Joe's because it's a small grocery store and it's real hard to get lost in there. You know what I'm saying?

Dani 55:25

I mean, it's also a great place to spend $300 on snacks, but I digress- I love Trader Joe's.

Megan 55:31

So many good snacks. Their peanut butter pretzels are the best peanut butter pretzels.

Emily 55:37

Yes.

Megan 55:37

They're good.

Dani 55:38

Hot tip. Sidebar, Trader Joe's episode. Today's episode is sponsored by Trader Joe's. It is not, but we love them. Meg, I think that we covered this earlier, but in case anybody didn't write it down, if anything resonated, if anybody has questions about online support groups, want to pick your brain about something, is there a good way to get a hold of you? Are you on the internet? Is email the best?

Megan 56:00

Email. Yeah, email's the best. So just groups@postpartum.net. That's me. My email's also like all over that webpage on PSI website. You can definitely find me. But yeah, that's me. I'm on the other end of that.

Dani 56:12

Great. Emily, would you like to take us out?

Emily 56:16

I would love to. Okay.

Dani 56:19

Is that your are you adjusting your invisible–

Emily 56:21

Yeah, I'm adjusting my necktie. See?

Dani 56:23

Okay, cool.

Emily 56:23

Okay. Meg Money. This has been a delight. We have known each other for a long time because we've been at this parenting gig for a minute. And I think you embody what PSI is all about, which is like you become the help that you needed the most.

Megan 56:45

Yeah.

Emily 56:46

Which isn't to say you didn't have access to support groups, but that like support groups were just so pivotal that you then became support groups.

Dani 56:54

Took it to another level.

Emily 56:55

So thank you for sharing your personal story and nerding out about peer support with us.

Megan 57:02

Yeah. I enjoyed it so much. And ditto to you two. You're so easy to talk to. And this was just fun. This was fun.

Episode Closing

Dani 57:11

Yep. We should do it again. We heart you. Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time, and well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.