I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

KATIE CRENSHAW: Storytelling, Handling Criticism, and Why Authenticity Matters!

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On today’s episode, we’re sitting down with the incredible Katie Crenshaw, an award-winning content creator, public speaker, best-selling author and mother of three who has dedicated her career to increasing awareness and decreasing stigma of perinatal mental health disorders. We’ll chat about the importance of sharing stories, how to handle criticism, and why authenticity matters. We were thrilled when Katie joined us as a colleague at PSI, and now it’s our pleasure to share her story with you. So, without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend, Katie!

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Dani:

Welcome to the I Am One Podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with the incredible Katie Crenshaw, the Blue Dot Project Spokesperson of the Year in 2020, an award-winning content creator, public speaker, best-selling author, and mother of three who has dedicated her career to increasing awareness and decreasing stigma of perinatal mental health disorders. We'll chat about the importance of sharing stories, how to handle criticism, oof, and why authenticity matters. We were thrilled when Katie joined us as a colleague at PSI, and now it's our pleasure to share her story with you. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend Katie. Katie, welcome to the podcast studio. We are absolutely thrilled to be sitting here with you. We have been anxiously awaiting this interview for quite a while. And uh, you know, all the kids are home today, and I just, uh, it's gonna be interesting. Hopefully everybody is, uh, you know, gonna cooperate. I've bribed them with something I haven't decided on yet, maybe ice cream. Shh, don't tell them. So hopefully we won't hear anything but the three of our voices today.

Katie:

I'm really good at scaring kids. So if you need me to act like this is very serious and I need them to be quiet, just let me know.

Dani:

I'll give you a call if I need like a mom voice.

Emily:

Yeah, we'll put you on like speakerphone or something.

Katie:

Yes. I have a good mom voice.

Dani:

Yeah. Thanks so much for being here today.

Katie:

Thanks for having me!

Dani:

Emily. It looked like you were gonna say something.

Emily:

Nope. Nope. You told me to zip it.

Dani:

I guess we're just done here. No. Um, Katie, could you give us all a little bit of an introduction to who you are?

Katie:

Sure. That could take a while. I will try to make this short.

Dani:

We have an hour.

Emily:

I'm ready.

Katie:

I'm Katie Crenshaw, and now I work for PSI for almost- my year anniversary is this month.

Emily:

Happy anniversary!

Katie:

After volunteering and being, like, just adjacent to PSI for a long time as an advocate, and an influencer, and content creator, and writer, and speaker, and I worked with the Blue Dot Project before they came to PSI as their spokesperson as well, and kind of just was always hoping once I stopped doing content creation full-time, I could weasel my way into maternal mental health. And I wound up getting the opportunity to work for PSI. So I'm very excited about that. Personally, I live in Atlanta. I have three kids that are 10, 8, and 15– almost 16– in three days. Okay.

Dani:

Oh wow. We were all pregnant at the same time. Sidebar.

Katie:

Which time?

Dani:

For the 16-year-old. Mm-hmm. I have one that turned 16 in December and Emily–

Katie:

We didn't even have social media, so like, how did we even know what to do?

Emily:

I had a blog.

Katie:

I had a blog too! I did too.

Emily:

Yep.

Dani:

I was late to the blog game. I made one blog post when my 16-year-old was born.

Katie:

It's still technically online. It was because it was a free one.

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

It's so embarrassing.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Blogger mama era.

Emily:

Like WordPress was where it was hosted.

Katie:

Mine was Blog Spot.

Dani:

Oh, I wonder what mine was.

Emily:

I got really good at HTML coding. I was like, I could teach myself some stuff. Okay.

Katie:

That was like why it was the newsy transition for me. Which brings me to my next part of my introduction.

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

Um, yeah.

Dani:

Thanks for keeping us on track, Katie!

Katie:

Yeah. I was a hobby blogger, writer, for like, my whole adult life. And then when my second was born, it was like I was working in labor and delivery. So my background before content creation was healthcare. And so I worked in labor and delivery for a long time. And it's funny how like everything has been adjacent to women in vulnerable times. I went and got a doula certificate and I taught childbirth classes, but I was working night shift at the time at the hospital.

Dani:

That's hard.

Katie:

Yeah, and just like, you know, the cost of everything didn't make sense. So I knew I was gonna have to stay home with the newer baby and was not excited about it. That wasn't my journey. I didn't want to be a stay-at-home mom. But it just made the most sense. So I was like, I have to start a blog because I need something to work on. Yeah. At that time, my goal was to, like, get published in, like, Scary Mommy, and Huffington Post, and stuff.

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

Social media was like barely a thing for bloggers. So yeah, that's how that started and then that became successful, and I wound up making a full-time job out of being, like, an influencer and content creator, and crossed over to like more like full-time corporate side of it a few years ago.

Dani:

That is really cool. What was there, like, something specific that made it all take off? You're just like, I guess I'm just blogging here. Was there something that went viral or something, or?

Katie:

Well, I was getting momentum. I don't know if you guys remember there was a podcast called The Longest Shortest Time. It was, like, popular and it had this huge Facebook group of women, and I was in it already and I was kind of, like testing articles in there. That was before too, everybody was like, you can't post your own stuff or whatever.

Dani:

Oh.

Emily:

Right.

Katie:

So I remember, like, dropping some stuff. Well, I did get picked up by Huffington Post and Scary Mommy pretty quickly, like just pitching.

Dani:

Oh wow.

Katie:

And then I, like, stayed, I was on Pinterest and Google, like constantly just figuring out how to build a website and do all these things.

Dani:

Resourceful.

Katie:

Yes, and I kind of found my place with, like, funny listical type things, and the publications seemed to like that, whatever. So I was like, okay, this is like that group, especially, I think people were getting interested. And then, gosh, okay, so then the viral moment, like I was picking up speed, but then I pitched a story at the end of that year when my daughter was only four months old. She was born with like a large hemangioma on her face.

Dani:

What is that for our listeners who don't know?

Katie:

Huge birthmark, vascular birthmark that looks like a tumor. It was like red and half her face.

Emily:

Like port wine stain, I think is like, they've also called it that.

Katie:

Well, that's different. Port wine stains are flat.

Dani:

Oh.

Emily:

Oh.

Dani:

It was raised.

Katie:

Growing, yeah. And they didn't know, it was just like a whole thing of like not knowing what it was for a while and having these diagnostics. But the craziest part was, like, people's reactions. And I was, like, getting so annoyed with it. Um, like, not just like typical shocked, annoying people, but like the pity people were having. It was weird. It was like people were just like, oh my god, like her life is gonna be horrible, and like-

Dani:

Oh wow, like unsolicited, just thinking that it's okay just to say-

Katie:

Family was, like, some of the worst ones. Like I would be trying to talk about her milestones and they would be like, but what about, like, her face? Are you sure? Like her doc- and I'm like, you guys, and I've said a million times, like, this isn't threatening her health. Like I had this whole, like, existential crisis about, like, beauty standards and I'm like this is a [meep-meep] baby. I'm sorry.

Dani:

Oh, meep-meep!

Emily:

But well placed F-bomb.

Katie:

Yeah.

Dani:

That was appropriate for the circumstance, okay? Yeah, leave that in. I mean, maybe beep it, but...

Katie:

I was like, she's a baby, and, like, people are already, like, talking to me about am I worried about if she's gonna date or if she's gonna have bullies. And I was like, she's four months old.

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

What do you mean?

Emily:

Do we talk under other conditions? Like anytime I think you've got, like, a disability, a physical difference, anything like that, it suddenly somehow becomes appropriate or not taboo, right? To discuss things that, like, no parent of a one-month-old, four-month-old, four-year-old, needs to be thinking about in that moment. Like, be present, but also are you worried about 30 years from now? Like-

Dani:

But even if the parent is thinking about it, it isn't anybody else's business though, unless they want to talk about it.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

You know?

Katie:

Yeah. And it's all under the guise of concern. People would come up, she'd be in my Tula, like in the store, and people would come up and, like, try to pray for her. Or they would be like, oh, what happened to your face? Like, she obviously can't even talk. And they're like, did you fall?

Dani:

Um, she can't even, like control her hands right now. Why are you trying to talk to her?

Katie:

And like I was in this hemangioma mom's group, and there were moms in there that had had CPS called by like, a cashier just because people were like, oh, they must have, like, hurt their baby.

Dani:

Oh.

Katie:

So I wrote an open letter. It was like an open letter to- I don't even remember the title. Anyway, I pitched it to The Mighty first, which is like a publication for people with disabilities and stuff, because I thought it would probably resonate with that crowd of people, like, no matter what. Scary Mommy picked it up from there, and then the whole world picked it up from Scary Mommy. And so then I was going viral, major viral. And then that's when people were like, do you have ads running? I think is what somebody said. On your blog.

Dani:

You're like, What do you mean? What do you mean ads? Yeah.

Katie:

Getting all this traffic. So I was like-

Emily:

And you were like ads on blogs.

Katie:

Yeah, and everybody was like, is your Instagram public, like, so people can follow you? And I was like, no, oh my god. So I, like, made my Instagram public and, like, did all this stuff because I was getting all this attention. It was, like, very scary, but also, like, very fulfilling. And then I was like, okay, well, this gap that I've been trying to fill of like the real talk, you know, darker kind of stuff clearly is missing, because this was like height of Pinterest Perfect Times, and... then I divorced already.

Emily:

And and you're like, have you seen my pin fail? Like–

Katie:

And maternal mental health was a huge thing I wanted to talk about that I felt like there wasn't a lot of people talking about yet. It wasn't trendy yet, so.

Dani:

Wow.

Emily:

What was your, like, diagnosis, slash what was your experience postpartum, aside from wanting to throttle unhelpful people in comments, which hello, relatable. But what else was going on?

Katie:

So it was wildly different every time. I know people who have kids spread out can relate to that, especially with like the rise of social media and so many huge things changed that like changed the postpartum experience, like community-wise, I guess, and how you learn about things and things like that. So for me, first of all, I already knew that my mom had experienced postpartum psychosis and was untreated.

Dani:

Oh, interesting. Wow.

Emily:

How did you know?

Katie:

She said she would have visions. She talked about how she had all these things happen when I was- and I didn't even have a name for it.

Dani:

She had a lot of, like, intrusive thoughts that were frightening, but beyond intrusive thoughts, it was–

Emily:

And then there was, like, the divorce from reality or like...

Katie:

Yeah, and I grew up in, like, a religious household. I don't think anybody really had the language or the permission in their beliefs to to really do anything about it. So I also didn't have a huge mental health background when it came to, like, science, because I was raised in the same house. I just knew that my mom had that history, so I know that I was afraid. I had previously had a lot of issues with mental health since I was nine or ten, but had never sought treatment just because I just didn't know anything. And my first son was born when I was 23. And yeah, I just previously had done the whole thing of I can handle all this on my own and I'm fine.

Dani:

I mean, much easier to do it when it's only you that you're thinking about. When you add other people's needs in, when you add other people's feelings, it's a lot.

Katie:

Yeah, and I was a very self-sufficient, you know, I moved out of the house when I was like 16, always kind of took care of myself and just believed I could power through pretty much anything. But when my oldest was born, again, I was young. We didn't have social media, we had, like, blogs and they were few and far between. And then I had like, What to Expect When You're Expecting, and, like, huge books of, like, just tons of information.

Emily:

How much time did you spend on The Bump? I wanna know.

Dani:

Oh, the bump!

Katie:

That was the source. Um, like on my Blackberry, yeah, totally.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Oh.

Emily:

Yeah. Like me and The Knot and The Nest and The Bump. I lived there. We were probably all in the same spaces.

Dani:

The emphasis was always like, oh, look, it's a mango this week. That's the most important- size of a mango. That's the most important thing I need to know this week.

Katie:

What was the other one though? It was The Bump and Baby Center.

Dani:

Oh, Baby Center!

Emily:

Baby Center.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Gotta get in on those forums, like, gotta get pseudoscience from random strangers on the internet. Like...

Katie:

And I eventually was like, okay, this is too much, and I need to throw all these books away. Like, I literally just threw my books away because I was like, I'm looking for all these diseases in this child, and I'm just like, this is too much. Which is funny, because, like, I can't imagine having a baby right now and going online and seeing, like, everything. There's so much.

Emily:

Like, let me Google Lens search.

Katie:

Yeah. So I feel like with the first baby, I was just lost. I honestly don't even have a lot of memory for the first few months. Like, I think it was just like, I don't know what's going on. I was trying to breastfeed. I had a c-section. I was also, like, disappointed that I had a c-section, but it was the whole, big baby you need a c-section. And I was like, okay, sure. It was a lot. So, and then we were starting to separate just a few months after he was born, too. So it was just a lot going on.

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

Fast forward to we are divorced. I'm a single mom of my oldest, and he was like 18 months old, and I felt like uh, and mine was more like presenting like rage-y and irritability. Always has, still does, not so much like can't get up in the morning. Mine was very like irritable, snapping.

Emily:

Overwhelmed.

Katie:

Yeah, and I remember thinking he doesn't deserve this. And that was the first time I made an appointment to see like a doctor or therapist, like–

Dani:

It wasn't because anybody else said anything to you, it was because you were like, oh gosh I'm actually, like, for the first time kind of like hearing myself.

Katie:

Yeah, and I cared more about him than I cared about myself, which is sad. But it was the catalyst, you know, like getting me there. I think a lot of people share that. But I did love that there were some older moms in my life that I was open with and encouraged me. They're like, if you need to get on medication, there's no shame. Like I had a few people around me that were like, very- and some of them were like, very religious. And it wasn't that long that I was coming out of the religious community, so like that helped in some way that these people who seemed to have faith thought it was okay for me to get help. So I did, and that was the beginning of like, oh wow, I really struggled for a long time for no reason.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yep.

Dani:

Like, that was way harder than it needed to be for way longer than it needed to be.

Katie:

Yeah, like why was my white knuckling that for- yeah.

Dani:

We didn't know what we didn't know.

Katie:

Yeah. So that began the process of being on medication. So then, when I had my next one, I was on a particular medication that they let me stay on. It's not typically recommended, but they they wanted me to stay on it. Cause sometimes that's better.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Emily:

Yeah.

Katie:

So I had a particular medication with her and also through breastfeeding. She was really colicky, so it was like, that was tough regardless. But I was much more aware and I was also processing a lot of it, and sharing it online, and all of that. And then with the third, I was also medicated and kind of like prepared in that way as well. Prepared as in, you know, I was medicated and I had a team of people. I've had the same psychiatrist since my middle child was born. So like a decade of managing my meds, and that always feels nice to have somebody who's been around that long and can see patterns that I can't and stuff like that.

Dani:

Yeah. You had some things in place for the second and the third.

Katie:

Yeah, and that doesn't mean that I didn't have- every time I weaned, I had delayed postpartum depressive episodes.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Emily:

Yeah.

Katie:

Which I didn't know it was a thing until it happened for the first time.

Dani:

Tell us what did that feel like? For anybody who doesn't know or maybe might be experiencing it, what did it feel like?

Katie:

So I only breastfed the first time for four months, but for the other two, I breastfed for 13 months and then 18 months. So I didn't have experience going that long before to begin with, but I expected that the worst, you know, the highest risk time was going to be immediately postpartum, and I'm medicated. So if I get through that, I'm probably fine. Yada yada.

Emily:

Yeah.

Katie:

And then the more they started to eat solid food, I felt like I was going like...

Dani:

Oh.

Katie:

And I mean, I tried to, like, research a little bit, like, is there a correlation with like, dropping oxytocin? And, like, there can be, but they don't really talk about that with perinatal mental health a lot.

Dani:

Were you feeling like sad, or depressed, or just like things are hard, or?

Katie:

In my case, it was, and these are still– like when I figured out my safety plans and like, the things that I look for to see, like, oh, you're in a bad place. For me, it's like apathy. Like, there's definitely, like, bouts of crying, but I always try to be, like my story is such a good example of it not looking like what you think it's gonna look like. I was very apathetic and sleep deprived. Okay, so I'm sleep deprived also, and so you want to blame everything on that, which of course that exacerbates it.

Dani:

It does.

Emily:

And let's face it, you have a one-year-old, which is a difficult age.

Katie:

Yeah.

Emily:

They are asserting independence in the most inconvenient ways humanly possible.

Dani:

You're basically like, great, you're on the move. Excellent.

Katie:

Yeah, and then when I- and then my younger two are, they're like, just less than two years apart.

Dani:

Oh wow.

Katie:

Yeah. So when I was weaning my youngest, my middle child was only three and a very difficult toddler in particular. And so I was exhausted and I started to just feel very disconnected from my body and the people around me, and I was unwell.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yeah.

Katie:

Luckily, I already had a psychiatrist in place. So with my second, I just kind of experienced it and powered through and was like, ugh, that was weird that that got hard. But then with the third, when I weaned him, I went in a really dark place and had suicidal ideation and stuff. And he wasn't even fully weaned, but it was when he really dropped feedings and started eating a lot of solid food. And it turned out that the medication I was on was just, like, not right at that point. Like when some major hormonal change happens or something major happens with your body,

Emily:

Yeah.

Katie:

Sometimes the medication's not right anymore. So that turned out to be that, like, she switched my meds and I was, like, instantly better. But yeah.

Dani:

Yay.

Emily:

Was it easy for you to ask? Like once you realized what was happening, because if at some point you're a little bit disassociating, like you're a little bit not really in your body, because things are hard and frustrating. But like, once you were aware enough, did it take long for you to then be like, hey, psychiatrist? Or were you like immediately like, let's do this?

Katie:

Well, a couple of things. So I also feel like I am historically the mom that's like, hey, I'm drowning, hey, I need help. And then I'm like, help me! Like, I, like, go from being like, really like, hey, um, things aren't good. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I'm gonna move to Mexico or die. And so is somebody gonna help me or what? Like, I'm like, nobody's listening. Like it's the constant, like, I'm invisible. Does nobody take me seriously? Like, what the heck?

Dani:

Like, I'm having a hard time, but were you like trying not to make it a huge deal?

Katie:

It's weird when you're in mental health crisis, because I mean I've a handful of times, like, I've experienced this where it's like it's just still so different from saying, like, I'm having a heart attack and I need somebody to help me. People listen. But like, for moms and women, it still feels like it's like I'm not allowed, or even if I am allowed to say the truth, which I was pretty good at at that point and could communicate really clearly. People are like, oh, okay, well, like, let me know if you can help. And my husband of the time, same way, like, all right, well, I'll be home later. Like, it was like, no, I don't think you understand.

Dani:

Like, I am not okay.

Katie:

Yeah.

Dani:

The first time I ever said that. I had these thoughts in my head, like, that was really dramatic. But really, it's the truth, and it's okay to say it. Like, I'm not okay. Like, what else...?

Katie:

Well, it's weird that there's this middle ground where it's like the next step is something terrible, and I'm also not able to function. So what do we do in the middle part?

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Right.

Emily:

Because the middle part still affects them and us. We lose confidence in ourselves. The kids have less, sort of, predictability, maybe, because our moods are fluctuating, or they're seeking attachment and we can't give it to them.

Katie:

It's such a critical time. Yeah.

Emily:

So yeah, like it's not a I'm fine, or like, oh, I could, you know, I could use a bubble bath, and then suddenly like, no, I'm really not okay. Send in the cavalry, like...

Katie:

And then what is that? And then that was when I learned, the first time, what's even available and what is helpful and what isn't. And actually I still didn't learn everything. Like I've learned more working for PSI on what's available than–

Emily:

Yeah, same.

Dani:

Same.

Katie:

I was like, oh crap, I could have called this. Like, I didn't know this.

Dani:

That would have been great 16, 14, and 10 years ago.

Katie:

Yeah, I mean–

Dani:

That's why we're all doing what we're doing, I mean–

Katie:

Yeah. And then it's like, okay, so my option is to go to one of these, like, state-funded mental hospitals. I don't think I need that, but like, I need immediate, it's just such a weird thing to try to figure out. And at the same time, you don't want to be separated from your kids. And I remember it being such a dance of um, well, this was like a different period of time. Also, it was like a medication issue, but I went in a dark place again when my little two were six and four. I again was like, I don't know, I what's going on. Each time I have like a little more knowledge, but still like I know enough to know something's wrong, but like kind of not knowing what to do about it. I went into an IOP program, which I had also never heard of.

Dani:

Was it nearby?

Katie:

It was life changing. Yes. I didn't even know what IOP was. And I had been a mental health advocate forever.

Emily:

Intensive outpatient, in case you're listening and you're like, I literally don't know what IOP is. Intensive outpatient.

Katie:

It's the lower end, so like partial hospitalization program, PHP is more all day. And IOP was only like 10 hours a week. So it was like three hours here and there. A lot of group stuff, which I thought I would hate and wound up loving.

Dani:

Why did you love it?

Katie:

Um, so I was like, I know everything about mental health. And I'm not gonna gain anything from being with all these people who likely know less than me about mental health and didn't want to be around men. Um, like, this is weird. Like, I don't- and it ended up, and of course, this is just my personal experience based on the group I wound up with, but I ended up, like, healing a lot of, like, issues with men and like being able to share around them and feeling comfortable because they just happen to be great, and just hearing other people's perspectives is very valuable. Even if it's totally different and their life is totally different than yours, and it really gave me a lot of empathy and insight to like what the people around me might feel like or people I might know in the future.

Emily:

Yeah.

Katie:

So that was life-changing. But what I was gonna say is like being a mom is weird because it gives you this fulfillment that you like feel like you need for your mental health to keep going, but it's also the hardest thing that's the biggest trigger. So, like at the same time, it's crazy. So I had a friend who would, we would like trick my brain. So when I was in IOP, uh, one of my kids is a lot more triggering to me. The most neurodivergent kid is more triggering to me than any of the other ones. And parenting them is very difficult, and it always has been, and it has always been a huge trigger. So I wanted more help with them, and I wanted them out of the house more, and like I needed a break more. But when they were all gone, I felt like I had no purpose.

Dani:

Oh.

Katie:

So I would get the easiest one to parent early. My friend helped me with the system. I would get the easiest one to parent early and have a couple hours with them. And then I felt like I'm such a good mom and I feel like so fulfilled and like-

Dani:

Your bucket was full.

Katie:

Yeah. And then I would get the hard one, um, like a little closer to bedtime. And then I could deal with it because I felt like I am a good mom and like I can do this. But if I had had both of them, it wouldn't have been that way. I would have been like, ah this is terrible, and I ruined them again, and now I have to disappear, you know. So we really had to sort of like hack the system and make me feel like a good mom and have a break.

Dani:

And it is okay to ask for a break. That took me eight years, I think.

Emily:

But it's like part of the culture of motherhood. I don't want to speak to parenthood in general, because I don't identify as a father. I don't, like, but it is pervasive in the culture of motherhood in the United States.

Katie:

In the traditional family unit, yeah.

Dani:

Oh yeah.

Emily:

That we can do it all, that we don't need help, or that if we do, we can somehow pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and do it ourselves.

Katie:

Or that we all want to be stay-at-home moms and not work, or yeah, it's just a ton of stereotypes.

Emily:

Yeah. Not helpful.

Dani:

Did you ever think I want to be a stay-at-home mom?

Katie:

Well um...

Emily:

You're like, maybe when I was five.

Katie:

Maybe when I was like very young, uh, it probably was an embedded thought in my upbringing because I was raised in such a traditional setting.

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

But no, after I became like my full adult self, and loved my work, and learning my creativity, and stuff like that, I wanted to do that. I identified more with that.

Dani:

Did that feel odd to you to say that out loud to people that I want to be working? Like...

Katie:

It was odd, but I was so driven by the response every time. Like there were so many times when I was like, I don't want to talk about my life anymore on social media. I don't want to talk about my mental health, it's too sensitive. My full-time job was doing this during one of my breakdowns. I say like there were a million, but there was like two in the last, uh, there were 2018 and 2021 were like really bad ones, where I was like intervention quickly. And for the last one, I mean, my whole livelihood, and I was divorced, depended on my Instagram account, and my whole persona was sharing my personal life, and I was like having a legitimate breakdown.

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

You know, it's the thing where like I've got to have an Instagram story up every hour so that my engagement stays up so that I can still maintain these brand deals, and I'm like going to a mental hospital. So my friends were like helping me, and I was honest about it, because every time I was, even when it was hard, it was worth it to get all the messages of people that felt unseen or alone or whatever the things that we all feel.

Dani:

Oh, yeah.

Emily:

Yes.

Katie:

You still need beacons out there. Like we still need the people that are gonna talk about it because people are looking if they feel weird, they're going on social media to see.

Dani:

Like anybody else, anyone out there? Like...

Katie:

Yeah, and I felt like it was that was part of my purpose. And over, you know, the last 20 years of my life, I have always been drawn to these spaces, these perinatal spaces with birthing parents and being a support advocate sort of person in some way. And I think I always will be connected to that.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Well, you bring in the truth and sharing what you're really going through and not sugarcoating it for people is something that is very important. So thank you, Katie.

Katie:

I'm so grateful that now it's become so much more common. There's so many more advocates online talking vocally. When I started, it was still pretty taboo. There were a couple of like general mental health advocates that I was inspired by, but it wasn't a big mom presence. Moms are the last ones that want to talk about it out loud because you have to maintain your mom image.

Dani:

Like, what does that mean about me? What does that say about me?

Katie:

Yeah.

Dani:

That you're human!

Katie:

We don't even know. Like, you know, I still wrestle with like, does this mean I'm not a good mom, or does this mean like, is this somebody else's baggage? You know, whatever. But it's so important, and now celebrities have talked about it more and like it continues to get louder.

Dani:

Have you ever felt like maybe I shouldn't be doing this? Have you like, uh, had issues with like, uh, people saying mean things?

Emily:

Oh, how do you deal with the haters? Is that what you're asking?

Dani:

How do you deal with the haters? Because I have a love-hate relationship with social media. I agree with you. I think it's so important for us to say all the quiet things out loud so that nobody feels as alone or flawed as the three of us may have at any point in time in our lives. And you know, that's why the three of us are sitting in front of a microphone and talking about all the things. But sometimes it's hard. Like, how do you deal with the hate? Or do you not get any?

Katie:

Oh no, I- oh my god.

Dani:

Okay.

Katie:

Now it's not my full-time gig, so. But still, when I post something sensitive, there's something. There is somebody that didn't like something. And I think A, learning that that's gonna happen, that like, and also like having really good boundaries, you control your online space in that way. And like my friend used to say, like, I wouldn't let you come in my living room and crap on my carpet. So I'm gonna delete your comment if you're a bully. Like...

Dani:

Like you heard it here first. Don't come into our living room and crap on our carpet. Okay, that's gross and weird.

Katie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Like, we have indoor plumbing now. Don't make it weird.

Katie:

That's such a great analogy.

Dani:

Check. This podcast episode is complete.

Emily:

Okay.

Katie:

Yeah, like people always have something to say. So having the boundaries feel like you can control some of it, you can turn your comments off, you can delete things, whatever. Honestly, I got more hate about other stuff. I talked about body image a lot, and got way more hate about that.

Dani:

Ugh.

Katie:

And then about my middle child's birthmark for some reason.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

Which also is weirdly related to body image. So like people get unusually heated about body image and it's weird. If I could study that alone, I would just study that. That's weird.

Dani:

Uh-huh.

Katie:

People're like passionate.

Dani:

It brings up a lot for everybody, probably in different ways. And sometimes people can't control the impulse to type something and hit comment.

Emily:

I mean, we can't control ourselves in person either.

Dani:

Well, yeah, that's exactly what I was just thinking about this, you know, the folks that you were talking about, Katie, that needed to talk to you about what she was gonna do for a job, like who her partner was gonna be, if anybody, you know, like when she's 30.

Katie:

Or strangers needing to like know what specialist I'm using. Like, okay. Yeah, it's just weird. And honestly, my boundaries had to be better around the empathy, getting drawn in. Cause obviously my platform, I had a lot of messages that were desperate and long, and trying to communicate with people in a human way, but also being like, oh, I'm not a brand, I'm not a corporation. Like, I can't-

Dani:

I'm also not like a provider. Yeah.

Katie:

I had to get good about like having a copy paste to like resources and like doing my best to help people feel heard, but also like that's something that mental health influencers have a lot. You know, and this is our lived life. Like every day I struggle with mental illness. So, like, also some days I don't want to think about it and talk about it.

Emily:

Like some days I just want to like eat nachos and like binge watch something on Netflix, you know what I mean? Like...

Katie:

I don't want to talk to people in my comments about it. But I prefer it the way it is now, where it's not like I depend on it for livelihood. It's like I do what I want when I want now, and it's more advocacy. Yeah.

Emily:

I was gonna say that's the other thing is like, I think, I mean, we all have teenagers, but like whether you're a teenager sort of looking at wanting to be an influencer or you're a stay-at-home parent who's sort of trying to have something that's for you, like even if the motivation isn't I want to be famous,

Katie:

Yeah.

Emily:

if the motivation is just like, like when we started blogs, it was like we were literally giving ourselves homework so that we had something that was forcing us to like reflect and...

Katie:

Well, and I think you're desperate. Like motherhood or parenthood probably in general is like there's so much self-same and guilt involved with it that it's like I have to have something in my life that I know I do well so that I have some semblance of like gratification that I'm doing anything right as a human. And I already know I'm gonna feel like I am terrible at motherhood. So what can I feel good at?

Emily:

Right.

Katie:

That can also help people, which is you know, the ultimate goal should be.

Emily:

Saying hard, true things should always be rewarded. Even if they can't be received by the people who need them the most, there are always gonna be other people who see when we try to do that.

Katie:

And like even one person for me, I mean, I know for a lot of people, even if one person is helped, that's enough. Like that's worth it.

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

Yeah. Because, you know, once upon a time, I'm sure that the three of us just were curious if there was one other person that might have thought the same thing as we thought or felt the same thing as we felt, you know, in those moments where we were really critiquing the heck out of ourselves while we were trying to white knuckle through this motherhood thing.

Emily:

I'm fine!

Katie:

I can't imagine how like previous generations maintained sanity.

Dani:

Question, I don't know that we covered this. I was curious, at what point did PSI come onto your radar, slide into your DMs, what have you? I don't know.

Katie:

Initially, I actually was involved with the Blue Dot Project through 2020 Mom, which is Policy Center now, but the Blue Dot Project was a part of that. And I don't remember how I initially heard of them, but I heard of them and immediately was like, I want to be a part of this. Oh man, it must have been like 2017 maybe that I started just kind of like being involved and advocating, talking about them online. And then in 2019 they asked me to be their 2020 spokesperson. And then COVID happened. And so... and then spokesperson title consisted of like doing a lot of like webinars of like-

Dani:

Uh-huh. I wonder if I was even at one of those webinars. I mean, I remember thinking like, well.

Katie:

A lot, like too many, too much.

Dani:

Oh yeah.

Katie:

Yeah, it was a weird year, but that was my uh, that was my year as the spokesperson for the Blue Dot Project. And then I did some stuff with Mom Congress, which was like an adjacent program, and went to Washington with them in 2022.

Dani:

You meet with some legislators?

Katie:

Uh yeah, on Zoom. It was like still, we talked to them on Zoom.

Dani:

Were you nervous?

Katie:

I mean, I'm nervous in a good way, like it energizes me.

Dani:

Oh, cool.

Emily:

Yeah.

Katie:

I love that stuff. But luckily at the time, Georgia had two Democratic representatives, so it was easy. I felt bad for the other states that had to like- the people talking to other states that had to like fight. Like mine was easy. They were already behind our fields.

Emily:

Like, please, this matters.

Katie:

Yeah. I do love the policy side of it. But so I don't know. Somewhere along the way, I obviously knew about PSI. And then the Blue Dot Project moved to PSI. And when that happened, I told Laura from the Blue Dot Project, like, if there's ever a job opportunity, like I want to work for PSI.

Dani:

Wink wink, nudge, nudge.

Katie:

Yeah. And then like a couple years later, she's like, I think I'm gonna get to hire a part-time person.

Emily:

And you were like–

Dani:

You're like, hey girl, hey.

Katie:

And I was like, me, me. Of course I had to go through, like, the formal process and everything, but I definitely applied and was like, I have to figure out how to get rid of my other jobs. Just, I wanna work there. And that's how it happened. So, uh, was started out, I started out as part-time and I just became full-time.

Dani:

Hey!

Emily:

Woo woo!

Dani:

Boom.

Katie:

Chase your dreams, guys.

Dani:

Chase your dreams. Yeah, we were very excited when we heard you were coming over, so.

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

Well, um...

Emily:

Are we...?

Dani:

Are we- Are we gonna...?

Emily:

Lightning round?

Dani:

Katie, is there anything before we jump into the lightning round? We're so weird. Thanks for hanging out with us. Is there anything that we didn't ask you that you wanted to talk about before we jump into the lightning round? Anything else you want to mention? I mean, no wrong answers. We could do a whole series.

Katie:

Um, no, I mean, I think I like did a pretty good job of tempering my chattiness as best as I could, and we're still at, you know.

Dani:

I know, yeah. We could chat about all kinds of things.

Emily:

We're doing great.

Dani:

We're all on our best behavior right now.

Katie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Okay, well-

Emily:

Shall we saunter over to the lighting round?

Dani:

Okay. What's a saunter? Okay. Oh, is that like something you do on a horse?

Emily:

Uh...

Dani:

I don't know. Everybody do your best saunter. Um...

Emily:

We are wiggling in our seats and pretending that we are getting up and moving. This is mostly an audio medium, friends.

Dani:

Yeah, this is.

Emily:

Uh, anyway.

Dani:

Uh, Katie, for the very first question of the lightning round, what is your second favorite podcast besides this one, obviously? It does not have to be perinatal mental health related. It could be anything. Anything goes.

Katie:

I have to say, uh, it's kind of a tie, but this is great for parents, if you are listening. Uh, The Lazy Genius, I'm like obsessed with her. I read her book first, and I don't think I knew at the time she had a podcast, but her name's Kendra Adachi, and she provides just like really great insight on how to like make your life smarter, not harder, especially as a mom.

Dani:

Oh, like...

Katie:

No, it's like good stuff. I mean, I know everybody's doing that, but she's so intentional and like after reading her, you should read her book first, and it's called The Lazy Genius. She just has different principles to like think about and like, when you're doing things, like she changed my life with um, like it's always an issue with clothes in the morning, and like getting ready, and like the laundry is always an issue. And she was like, Why do you need to fold everything if it's like t-shirts? Like just flat, like just throw it in the drawer. And I was like, oh my god, that's so true. And it saves so much time. So I have, like, bins in the laundry room where I just like put t-shirts and shorts, you know, and it doesn't have to be perfect, and then they can just go get it. Like, why are we spending all this time folding everything? So it's stuff like that. That you're just like, yeah, I am allowed to do that.

Dani:

Yeah, nobody is walking into your closet or your bedroom going, uh, oh... what is happening here?

Emily:

And if they are, you should ask them to leave.

Katie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Bye!

Katie:

It's just a good practice of like analyzing what you're doing. Her whole thing is like, she has a whole formula of like identifying what matters, identifying the season you're in to see if this is something that can happen in this season or not. Like, she's just- it's very digestible and she's got great energy. So I love that podcast.

Dani:

That is cool. Well, now I know what I'm doing later.

Emily:

I have a feeling I'm reading a book this weekend.

Katie:

When I found it, I listened to like all of them.

Dani:

Oh, all of the episodes of the podcast?

Katie:

I think they're only 30 minutes.

Dani:

Oh, cool.

Katie:

Every month she does like office hours where she like answers people's questions, and she also does one of the 10 things that are saving my life right now, and they're random, cool things that you might want in your life, like-

Dani:

You posted something like that a while ago.

Katie:

Yeah, that inspired me.

Dani:

You did. I was like, oh, cool. We should share that kind of stuff with each other too. If something is like making your life amazing, like...

Katie:

That was like the old school blogging days.

Dani:

Yeah, let's bring it back.

Katie:

I know.

Emily:

Yes.

Katie:

I don't care about your pictures. What did you order on Amazon that helped you clean your kitchen or whatever?

Dani:

Like, send us a message.

Emily:

Or did someone actually hack dinner time, like for real, for real? Because that would be great.

Katie:

Well, for me, this is what the episode could have been about, is the way I have to hack parenting or my ADHD. But like, yeah, like it's a lot of letting go of things and less logistics. It's a lot of just like, who cares if I give them two different dinners at two different times? Like that stuff, like just doesn't matter. It's not worth the fight. So a lot of the hack is just going with the flow.

Dani:

Yeah, like asking, is this working? And then adjusting and coming up with a new plan and trying something new and...

Katie:

Yeah, I saw something the other day that was like, is it guilt or is it somebody else's judgment that you're absorbing? And I was like, oh my God, it's mostly somebody else's judgment or like wondering what somebody else is gonna think about my parenting rather than–

Dani:

What is pushing me to, like, insist on this thing that's not working?

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

That's intriguing.

Emily:

Well, we now know Katie's best parenting hack, so we have to go back and ask what are you binge watching or reading or listening to or whatever? Like, what's next in our queue?

Dani:

Like on Netflix or Audible or wherever. What's happening?

Katie:

Oh man, I have every platform.

Dani:

Well then.

Katie:

After tomorrow, Taylor Swift's new album will-

Emily:

I know.

Katie:

This is my last Thursday without a new Taylor Swift album called Life of a Showgirl.

Dani:

Uh-huh.

Katie:

I just finished the book We Can Do Hard Things this morning.

Dani:

Oh, was it your first time reading it?

Katie:

Yeah, I hadn't read it yet.

Dani:

Katie! Okay. Well, we should get together with Abby and Glennon and sister.

Katie:

Glennon sent me–

Emily:

Poor Amanda has a name. Like...

Dani:

Hey Amanda! Wait, Glennon sent you what? I'm sorry.

Katie:

Glennon–

Dani:

I'm about to be mad at Glennon for not sending us something, but it's okay. This is not about me.

Katie:

Oh my god, she was, like, not as big. I have... Okay, never mind. I can't get it off my bulletin board. I'll show you later. She sent me a hand written note that was like, thank you for all you're doing for women. And here's an advanced copy of Untamed, and like-

Dani:

What?! You have an advanced copy of Untamed that's signed?

Katie:

I read it in like six hours. I know.

Emily:

I mean, when I realized I was gay, I reread Untamed with a whole new...

Dani:

Same.

Emily:

I read it and was like, I mean, okay, like, I love this for you. Live your truth. But like, like, I'm just bi. So...

Katie:

Well, I got a trauma-informed- Okay, I like went overboard and got like an LGBTQ plus specialist therapist that understood trauma. And I'm like going into it, like, is this my trauma? And like that was when I learned, like, she was like, it doesn't matter. Like, it really doesn't, like, either way, here we are. Like, maybe it is, maybe it's not.

Dani:

Maybe it's Maybelline. I don't know.

Katie:

Yeah, and Untamed when she talks about like, I know this was like super controversial, but she was like, maybe I wasn't born gay. Maybe it's just like the better decision or something. And it was like, yeah, who cares why anybody's choosing what they're choosing? Leave them alone. Maybe they're born gay. Maybe they-

Emily:

Oh no, I mean, in hindsight, I was definitely gay. There were signs.

Katie:

No, but I mean, like, it's so- you can't try to like pathologize it. Like, I was like, is this real? Is this really me or whatever?

Dani:

Yeah, it's complicated for those of us who came, who grew up in a religious community sometimes.

Emily:

"Is it real?" Is the most insidious question because we moms ask ourselves it all the time.

Katie:

Yeah.

Emily:

Is what I'm feeling real? Is how frustrated I am, or how sleep deprived I am, or how hopeless I feel. Is this real?

Katie:

It is my reality. That was what my therapist just, you know, she's like, at the end of the day, like, you are real, and this is you. So it doesn't really matter. Like,

Dani:

Yeah.

Katie:

this is what it is.

Dani:

Okay, well.

Katie:

Yeah, Glennon's sent me a book, and it was awesome. And she's like messaged me on Instagram, but then she got like super famous, and that was that

Emily:

Damn it, Glennon.

Dani:

Hey Glennon, we can hang out, like if you have a moment. I listen to you guys like when I'm mowing. It's really nice. I love it. But if you want to hang out with us in the podcast studio, you let us know.

Katie:

Yes.

Dani:

We all love your book and all the things you're doing, so.

Katie:

Yeah.

Dani:

Call us.

Emily:

Yeah, for real for real.

Dani:

Okay.

Emily:

What is one way that you are gonna show yourself some radical love? A today.

Katie:

Today.

Emily:

Don't delay.

Katie:

I already did some things. So I-

Emily:

That counts.

Katie:

I took a walk, which is like so hard for me. I hate it, but I took a walk this morning and like washed my hair and like did the things to make myself start the day right. Something about like washing my hair and putting on clothes is like, okay, now it's time to be productive.

Dani:

Like, especially when you work from home. I put jeans on the other day and I was like, I have a real job. You know, like it feels different than when you like roll in in your Vuoris.

Katie:

Oh my god.

Dani:

Sponsor us.

Emily:

My husband's obsessed with Vuoris.

Dani:

Me too. Also, Costco has some great knockoffs.

Emily:

What do they call those?

Dani:

They're called dupes.

Emily:

Dupes.

Katie:

Good job.

Dani:

Does anybody know that? If you have a teenager, my middle schooler said something about she was wearing her dupe, and I was like, what is that? Yeah, like very, just, oh, I can't find my dupe. And I was like, what is that? And she explained it and I go, oh, like duplicate? Got it. And then I proceeded to use that about eight times throughout the rest of the day. But anyway, if you have uh, you know, store brand, Kirkland brand, knockoff Vuoris that feel great, but I love Vuoris. So if Vuori needs like some podcast, uh, models.

Emily:

I mean, honestly, Kirkland should be sponsoring us. That's our demographic.

Dani:

Hey, Costco, also Vuori, also...

Katie:

Just in general, anyone that can help with groceries, fantastic.

Dani:

Perfect.

Katie:

You offer any sort of feeding the family energy, we'll take it.

Dani:

Feeding the family. I like that. Okay. I love that you got out for a walk and you washed your hair. All that feels good. It's hard to do. It feels like it's hard to do, a lot.

Katie:

Yes.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Okay, Katie. If you could jump into a time machine, like whatever. I don't know if you're like a TARDIS fan or like if you're more like- that's from Doctor Who. I know, I'm with you. That's for Emily, not for us.

Emily:

I'm offended.

Dani:

Or maybe you're more of like a DeLorean fan type of time machine, fan. Uh okay, I've lost Katie. Great. I don't know how to connect with you now, Katie.

Katie:

Time traveler's wife.

Dani:

I'm running out- Okay, great.

Emily:

Time traveler's wife! Perfect.

Dani:

There we go. Perfect. If you were to jump in a time machine and travel back in time, what is one thing that today you wishes she could say to pre-recovery you?

Katie:

There were so many things that I was like, oh. Um, but I think the main thing would be like, it's okay to listen to yourself and not look externally for all the answers.

Dani:

Oh yeah.

Katie:

I think I doubted that what I was feeling was real or my intuition was bad or this mom was better. Like it was very external, and I could've just been like, you don't feel okay, and that's valid enough to get help.

Dani:

Boom.

Emily:

100%.

Dani:

So true.

Katie:

I still struggle with that. I think a lot of people with anxiety struggle with that. Yeah.

Emily:

When we figure out what that thing is, that we would say to ourself, we need to write it down and then, like, keep it.

Katie:

Yeah.

Emily:

So like you need a little card that says like, listen to yourself. All right. I want to get to the real hard-hitting questions here, guys. How do you take your water?

Dani:

Are you staying hydrated, Katie? Bubbles, no bubbles, flavor, flat, room temperature, ice.

Katie:

This is gonna anger the environmentalists, but it's like my ADHD hack is having like plastic bottles of water available to like because my kids lose their freaking water bottles all the time. I do it too. So I have, like, just little like plastic water bottles all over the place. But I am trying to hydrate, so that's all that matters.

Emily:

You are hydrating and you are not looking externally for validation. So I think your water choice is great.

Dani:

Way to stay hydrated.

Katie:

Thank you. I am nothing if not a plant.

Dani:

I water myself as a plant with, uh, with coffee, and I should do better. Anyway, plants don't need coffee. Okay, Katie, if folks would like to get a hold of you, find you on the internet, ask you a question, connect in some way. Can they? Would you like them to leave you alone or how can they get a hold of you?

Katie:

Usually I'm like, if you want to reach out to me, don't. But uh, I'm kidding. My public Instagram is @ Katie M Crenshaw. And obviously, I'm also heavily involved with PSI and the Blue Dot Project and can be found that way as well.

Dani:

Okay, cool. We will leave links in the show notes to all the lovely things that we talked about today. Get a hold of Katie if if you'd like to connect with her, and answer our questions. Remember, we asked some questions during this episode. Comment, you know, let us know like what you would say to yourself, all the things, so.

Emily:

Or what your time machine of choice is.

Dani:

Yeah, I mean-

Emily:

I want to know that.

Dani:

I mean, obviously DeLorean. Hey, Emily, would you like to take us out?

Emily:

Okay, Katie.

Katie:

Yes?

Emily:

It was fun to be pregnant at the same time as you.

Dani:

We didn't know it!

Emily:

We didn't know it. So that's in hindsight kind of disappointing. Um, but I think there's something special about like having gone through these stages of parenting and be able to have this like inside joke about like mommy blogging and those other things that were like sort of cultural moments in time for all of us. So thanks for taking us on a little bit of a journey and thank you for like saying the hard things out loud and being unapologetically yourself on the internet.

Katie:

Thank you. I'm sometimes apologetic, it just depends.

Emily:

That's your trauma though. Me too. I get it. Oh, I'm sorry!

Katie:

Thanks for the encouragement. It like always gives me energy to keep going.

Dani:

Thanks, Katie.

Katie:

Thanks, guys.

Dani:

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time, and well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

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Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
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Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host