I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

MELISSA BENTLEY, LPC, PMH-C - I AM ONE Perinatal Mental Health Nerd

• Season 2 • Episode 27

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On today’s episode, we’re sitting down with a longtime listener, first time caller (or … podcast guest) - Melissa Bentley. Melissa is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of Texas, and is thrilled to be making a difference as the Support Coordinator Program Manager here at PSI. In this role, she supports over ~475 volunteers across the US and Canada who provide Education, Empathy and Resource Referrals for new parents who reach out to PSI for help. Today we’ll hear about how perinatal mental health first showed up on Melissa’s radar as an 11-year old mother's helper and the lasting impression that that early experience made on her personal and professional lives.

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Dani:

On today's episode, we're sitting down with longtime listener, first-time caller, or podcast guest, Melissa Bentley. Melissa is a licensed professional counselor in the state of Texas and is thrilled to be making a difference as the support coordinator program manager here at PSI. In this role, she supports over 475 volunteers across the U.S. and Canada who provide education, empathy, and resource referrals for new parents who reach out to PSI for help. Today, we'll hear about how perinatal mental health first showed up on Melissa's radar as an 11-year-old mother's helper and the lasting impression that that early experience has made on both her personal and professional lives. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the I Am One podcast are the speaker's own. Tuning into this podcast is not a replacement for therapy or any other form of professional help. Our discussions cover personal stories of perinatal mental health disorders and may feel triggering to some listeners. Your number one priority is to take care of yourself. So if you are in need of support, please reach out to the PSI helpline by calling or texting H-E-L-P to 1-800-944-4773 for help in English and in Spanish. At PSI, we want you to know you are not alone, you are not to blame, and with help, you will be well. Okay, let's get on with the podcast. Melissa, welcome to the podcast studio.

Melissa:

Hi, thanks for having me.

Dani:

I think we may have a friendly competition going for most dedicated I Am One podcast listener. For everybody who was listening to last week's episode, Cody was the self-proclaimed most dedicated podcast listener. But Melissa, before we get started, can you tell everybody about how and when you listen to the I Am One podcast?

Melissa:

Absolutely. I listened to that episode this morning while walking my pup, Lucky Bentley, on his morning walk. And that's how I listen to the podcast.

Dani:

Yeah, I mean, actually, after season one ended, it was a Tuesday morning. We were in an all staff meeting and Melissa raised her hand and was like, excuse me, can I ask a podcast question? Where's today's episode? And I was like, oh, I'm so, so sorry to inform you that season one has wrapped. And she was like, I didn't have it on my walk this morning. I was like–

Melissa:

I was rudderless.

Dani:

Melissa Bentley, extra point. We keep track.

Emily:

Yes.

Melissa:

I do really enjoy listening in the mornings when I'm walking my pup.

Dani:

Yay. I felt good inside. Thanks, Melissa. We are really excited to sit down with you and hear some of your shared lived experience and hear what you're up to today, helping folks in the perinatal period. So Melissa, without any further ado, could you please give us a little bit of an introduction to who you are?

Melissa:

Sure. I live in Austin, Texas, and I have a very supportive husband and two teenage boys. I joined as a coordinator with PSI as a volunteer back in 2015. So it's been eight years. October of 2015 was a very busy month because I joined as a coordinator. I started a local support group called Mamas for Mamas that still goes on today. And then I also joined the board of a local nonprofit called Pregnancy and Postpartum Health Alliance of Texas. And I just I really, I'm a self-professed perinatal mental health nerd.

Dani:

Oh, we're into it.

Emily:

Yeah, we like nerdy things.

Melissa:

Yeah. And so I am also a licensed professional counselor, but I'm not in private practice. But I certainly have, you know, some skills that are really helpful and some knowledge that's helpful in my now professional role. or occupation. So back in 2019, I joined as staff. So I joined PSI as the manager of the support coordinator program. And, you know, it started with Wendy and then Carrie came on and she took it over. And then I took it from Carrie because Carrie was doing too much. Each person has just been doing too much. And so they had to hand off a piece of it.

Emily:

It is what we do around here.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's how growth happens. It makes sense. But so I, sometimes I think I can't fully take responsibility for how awesome this program is because it started with Wendy and then Carrie, like, fine tuned it a bit more. And then, you know, I like to think I've made some helpful changes.

Emily:

Oh, for sure.

Melissa:

But I'm so proud of it. And I have to say, even though I am a, you know, LPC in my state, I feel like I make a bigger difference as a coordinator than as a therapist, because I can help so many more parents that are struggling and don't know what's going on. Don't have the words to describe what's happening. Like I can help them kind of make sense of what's happening. I'm not diagnosing. I'm just providing some context of what a lot of different parents experience.

Emily:

I think it's very healing to provide help in an area where like you felt that you didn't get enough.

Dani:

Melissa, I'm curious. So this is kind of like, I'm wondering how perinatal mental health disorders have kind of touched your life on a personal level. Do you want to share about that?

Melissa:

So my journey with perinatal mental health was a little bit different. It started actually back when I was 11. I was a wee little one. It was the summer before sixth grade. I was a mother's helper for a woman who during the summer I helped out, the mom was pregnant again and it was not a pregnancy that was expected.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

As we know, breastfeeding is not actually birth control. And she found that out the hard way. She had always thought that.

Dani:

PSA. It's not a birth control method.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Dani:

The more you know.

Melissa:

The more you know, exactly. So in this case, she was not expecting it. So anyway, now when I meet parents and hear their story, in the back of my mind over here, you can't see it. There is a checklist over here of risk factors. And so looking back, I'm like, oh yeah, check, check, check, check, check. Like there were a lot of things going on in her life that really set the stage for her to have a hard time. So I was there to support her and to take care of the kiddo and then help her as like, as the pregnancy progressed and just kind of be there. And she probably shared with me a little more than was appropriate with an 11 year old.

Dani:

About how she was feeling about...?

Melissa:

Yeah. And also just like, you know, some of the struggles with her husband and, you know.

Dani:

Oh, with an 11 year old. Well.

Melissa:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I was very mature for my age.

Dani:

Okay. Melissa, you are, you are very mature.

Melissa:

Okay. I'm 48 now.

Emily:

Maybe you're not mature enough for your age now, but.

Melissa:

Right.

Emily:

And that's the goal. I think as we get older, right? Like, I want to stay cool.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Dani:

Okay.

Melissa:

Yeah. So in this case, I was with her through the summer. And basically, it really left this impression upon me that motherhood is not always like unicorns and teddy bears and all these happy things. And I realized that it could be really hard. And that not every pregnant person wants to be pregnant or the timing might not be right. And it just opened my eyes to these things. So throughout high school and college and then later grad school, every time I did kind of a research project related to psychology, which my bachelor's is in psychology. So there were many opportunities. I would do like lit reviews of, you know, postpartum depression, because that's all that it was called at the time.

Dani:

Right.

Emily:

Right.

Melissa:

So I did a lot of those studies and, you know, like deep dive into reading those articles and studies. And then even when I started grad school and really coming to understand what that was about, but it still was just about depression. And there just wasn't enough. And to me, that just felt kind of unfair. And I'm going to jump ahead a little bit and say, like, one of the things that I absolutely love about perinatal mental health is that it's so fascinating. Like, there are just so many different levels and layers and things that are involved. Like, it's, you know, there's a feminist perspective, like how women are treated in our culture and in any culture, like the role of the mother, the role of women, the role of caregivers, like that's a real factor as well as, of course, like any kind of preexisting condition of mental health, you know, any kind of depression or anxiety, OCD, even eating disorders, like all of that like fits in plus the identity formation and development and transformation that happens when a person becomes a parent, it's real. And their relationships change, how their relationships within the family change, relationships with their friends, like if they're working, like going back to work, like suddenly they may be like, I used to thrive on being this like, you know, cutthroat lawyer. And now I don't even want to go back to the office. Like I've heard all the things and it's just so interesting. There's just so many different things happening as well as like learning about taking care of a family and deciding what your new roles are going to be and how you're going to, you know, adjust to relationships. So I don't think I could ever get bored in this field and, you know, doing this kind of work, which is good because I don't like to be bored. No.

Dani:

It's not, it's not boring. So what was it like when you became a parent?

Melissa:

When I first had Max, my oldest, you know, my transition to like being a new mom, I had stopped seeing clients and was like, boom, I'm a stay-at-home mom now. And once we got over the shock of the baby blues and adjusting, I was bored and I was lonely. And I had friends with kids, but most of them, their kids were a little bit older and they were kind of doing their own thing, going to Gymboree, going to...

Emily:

And you're like, I have a sack of potatoes. I don't have a kid that needs to run around and be on a balance beam. Yeah, yeah.

Melissa:

Exactly. And I'm like, it was just hard to find other parents like that were going through the same thing. And so about two months in my husband was like, I can't be your only source of support because I'd be texting him during the day, you know, and he said, I have a coworker whose wife lives in the neighborhood and she's part of mom's club and you know, here's her information. And I was like, okay, so I did. And so I found some mom friends and got involved and that was really great. And that helped a lot. So I kind of feel like had I not had that intervention, like I already have a history with depression. I could easily have seen it going in that direction. Like, yeah, exactly. Kind of bubbling up to the surface and I could easily see that happening. So I was very fortunate that that had shifted. I don't think I was seeing a therapist at the time, but I had an old therapist kind of on standby in case I needed her. Which I did later because when my son was six months old, my mom was diagnosed with lung cancer. And unfortunately, she passed one week and one day before my second was born. And it was really scary because Christmas was always a really big deal for my mom. And so Christmas was coming and I was thinking, oh, it's all on me. I'm going to have to make sure Christmas is amazing. Yet the baby's due on December 29th and what's going to happen. But throughout the pregnancy, I was like, he's coming early. And I told people, like, I was like, he's going to be like six weeks early. And my OB was like, let's try two weeks early. Like six is kind of early. Oh yeah. He was six weeks early. He was, he came at 34 weeks and two days.

Dani:

How did you predict that? How'd you do that?

Emily:

Crystal ball, actually.

Dani:

Oh, nice.

Melissa:

Right. Yeah. No, it was kind of fun because my husband got to have a fun story because he was in Chicago for work. And thankfully his mom had been staying with us after my mom's kind of memorial service and all of that. And my dad was really sick at the time too. He had been diagnosed with breast cancer. And so the day that my youngest, that Nick was born, I was supposed to take my dad, get up early. Cause I was like, ah, I wake up early anyway. So I was going to go pick him up and take him to the hospital for his mastectomy. And I had in the night thought, you know, I can't tell if I'm losing amniotic fluid or not. So you know what, I'm just gonna in the morning, when I dropp my dad off at like, for the surgery, I'm just going to go to the ER and have them do the little ferning test and see what's going on. Yeah, I didn't get a chance because as soon as I had that thought, I felt a pop. And so my water broke. And then I drove myself to the hospital and my sister had been visiting. So she took my dad to the hospital, took care of that. But yeah, so I had to call my husband and say, hey, you might want to come home soon, or you're gonna want to come home soon. I don't think I give him the choice. Yeah, because, yeah. And so he had to go to the airport and say, okay, so this is like amazing race. I need to get to Austin as soon as possible. So I don't know. I'm sure if I asked him, it would like be this embellished story about like everybody on the plane staying seated so he could run up and like leave.

Dani:

They're all cheering him on.

Melissa:

Right, and it turned out that the direct flight was not the earliest. And yeah, so he made it. And an hour later, Nick was born.

Dani:

Wow.

Melissa:

Well, and not only that, he was born on World Prematurity Day.

Dani:

I mean, that's a little on the nose, Nick. Come on.

Melissa:

Right. Yeah. So he spent the first month in the NICU. And I walked into that place going, whoa, this is like, how can you come out of this without some sort of postpartum anxiety or OCD? Like, wow.

Dani:

What did it feel like as a parent to be in there?

Melissa:

Yeah, it was so weird.

Emily:

Like unsettling?

Melissa:

Yeah. I mean, just kind of like my baby's back here. Like it was, they had this long pathway to get to it. I think they had like recently renovated some of the hospitals. So like you just go on this long pathway, like thing to get to it. And then you have to scrub in, you have to sign in, then you have to scrub in for like five minutes. And still to this day, the smell of the soap at the, I'm in Austin, the St. David's hospital system still brings back that memory.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melissa:

So that's how PTSD works. Like there's some level in here that like, I smell it and like, it's intense. So, I mean, he progressed quickly, you know, and moved on. But then after a little while, like his lungs were fine. But then he became what they call a feed and grower, where he basically just had to get strong enough to eat enough. But in the meantime, I had a toddler at home and my dad was still recovering and kind of sick. And we were dealing with the grief of my mom. And I was trying to establish breastfeeding. I had not mentally prepared. I kind of had in my mind, okay, after mom passes, I'm going to have some time to kind of reconnect with this baby that I had. No, I did not have that time. It was a wild time.

Emily:

It was like a perfect storm, like this convergence of events, right? Like that's what they talk about when they're talking about risk factors is like you could have one and that may or may not be enough. But like once you throw a bunch of things on the pile, then of course.

Melissa:

Exactly. It's like, how could I not? So ironically, as I left, Nick was born in one hospital, but their nursery wasn't really equipped to handle him. So they had to transfer him to a different NICU. And my OB thought she was being nice by letting me, not discharging me because she thought that was helping. And so I was kind of stuck there for a while. And finally, I got messaged to her like, no, he's gone. I need to leave so I can go see him.

Dani:

I want to go. Thanks. Yeah.

Melissa:

Yeah, exactly. But as I was leaving, it was hard. Like they, you know, they wheel you out. And like, usually you see people leaving with like balloons and, you know, presents and they have their baby and all. I didn't have any of that. I was just wheeled out by myself and it just felt very anticlimactic and like, just felt weird. And he wasn't with me. He wasn't even in the same hospital, but get in the car. My husband pulled the car around and I get in the car and I called my old therapist. I was like, yeah, I left her a message. I was like, yeah, so some things have happened since I last connected. Um...

Dani:

Straight from the hospital to the telephone with your therapist. Perfect.

Melissa:

I was like, I think I'm going to need some support. And, you know, because I am a therapist myself and like some of like, or the work to like, everyone's will be like processing what it's like for me as a therapist, we would sometimes, I guess, break the fourth wall. I don't know. And talk about what it's like, you know, kind of talk a little bit about that, so it kind of blurred with consultation. Not exactly, but mostly my experience as a therapist, which all therapists should be in therapy or at least spend some time in therapy. But she called me back. We played phone tag and She left a message and she was like, you know I'm not supposed to do this. This is my cell phone number. She gave me a new number. This is my cell phone number. You call me. I will drop whatever I'm doing. We need to get you.

Dani:

This is off the record, but here's my number.

Melissa:

Exactly. Because she knew I wasn't going to abuse it, but she was like, oh, oh yeah. So that was good. So I think that was also a little bit of an inoculation from going fully down the path, but-

Dani:

Right.

Melissa:

Oh boy, that was a time.

Emily:

Yeah. And the thing is someone not you might've been in that same situation and not had the connection to an existing therapist or not had previous experience or knew the risk factors like you did. So like-

Melissa:

Exactly. Well, and I know, like they did their best, I think they had like a parent coffee once a week, like Tuesdays at noon or something like that. And it didn't, the time never worked for me because I had a toddler that I had to still go pick up. And it was a, you know, a month. And this was like, it started right before Thanksgiving and went all the way through to like a week before Christmas. But you don't know when it's going to end. It feels like it could be forever.

Dani:

Right.

Emily:

Yes.

Melissa:

And so they, you know, they offered that support. But I also just didn't really want to stay there any longer than I had to. Like I was there to see Nick and to pump because I would usually be able to pump more after seeing him. And because he was too tired to, he'd be like, ah, just put it in the tube down my nose. Like I don't, I'm too tired.

Dani:

Trying to sleep and grow.

Melissa:

Right. Which it's so funny now to think of him now. Cause he's like this like amazing athlete and does like all kinds of things. But at the time he was just this little like, yeah, too tired, whatever. But yeah. So it was interesting because that kind of planted some seeds for me of like NICU, they need support. And that support might not always be best in the NICU. Like I think they try and they have good intentions, but not all parents are going to be able to take advantage of that.

Emily:

I think, yeah, it would be very hard to be in the NICU, which is where you go when you visit your baby, but to be not using that time with the baby, that would feel really complicated and probably kind of icky, I think.

Melissa:

Yeah. Like I didn't really want to bond with the other parents and most of them were doing the same thing. Or you might be frustrated because you saw their baby move up to a different bay. Like the bay numbers, like start with one and go up to like whatever it is.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

And the lower number is the higher level of need and support. Baby kind of moves their way up and then, or at least in this hospital.

Emily:

So that competitive parenting started real early is what you're saying.

Dani:

Wow. From the jump.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melissa:

It could have. I'm sure for some parents. For me-

Emily:

Like, Johnny already rolled over. That's great. Like, come on. We don't, not everything's a competition.

Melissa:

Yeah. So it was interesting. So foreshadowing, I decided there needed to be some support later.

Dani:

I am curious, Melissa, when did you first hear about PSI? Did you know about PSI when you were becoming a mom? Was it later down the line? When did it come into your orbit?

Melissa:

That's a great question. I think it came into my brain in probably early 2015.

Dani:

A little late. Same here.

Melissa:

Yeah, exactly.

Dani:

Late to the party.

Melissa:

It had to be before. I did my first PSI training in May of 2015. I actually flew to St. Louis, Missouri. They were doing a training there. And my in-laws were kind of close. And so I took Nick with me and they took Nick and like hung out with him while I was at the training for a couple of days. And then we met back up and they helped, you know, because my older one was at school and he was a little easier for my husband to handle solo. My in-laws got to have some special bonding time too. And they loved it. So I did the PSI training and there was one point where like, I also was just so loving having a hotel room all to myself, the bed to myself, watching TV. And I think it was the first night I was like leaving and going to my room and Wendy and Birdie were like, hey, do you want to come sit with us? And I was like, Oh my gosh, I couldn't possibly like-

Dani:

Excuse me? Uh-oh, imposter syndrome. Oh yeah.

Melissa:

To this day, I've kicked myself. Like that would have been such a great, like I would have had them to myself, but I mean, I'm sure there were others there too, but I would have learned so much more about PSI at the time. Yeah. So it was not a resource for me at the time.

Dani:

Yeah. I don't think for either any of the three of us, right?

Emily:

True. Well, I called the helpline, but I didn't know that it was the helpline. And then by the time they called back, I felt fine.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Emily:

Fine.

Dani:

Everything's fine.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Yeah. So here's a phrase that I've come up with that you guys might want to steal.

Dani:

Oh, okay.

Melissa:

If I had a dime for every time that somebody said, I wish I knew about PSI when I was going through that, we would have enough money to make sure that everybody knew about PSI.

Dani:

Oh yeah.

Emily:

I absolutely agree.

Melissa:

My cherished outcome is that like, it would be amazing if every OB, even every general practitioner knew about PSI. And if they had a patient that they were not like, they didn't, they were like, I don't, I can offer medication, but I don't know if that's really what they need or they're not wanting it. That's not noncompliance. That's they need more handholding. Like if they knew about PSI, whether it's a coordinator or the helpline or just our website with all the information. What an amazing difference that could make.

Emily:

Yeah, you can't medicate against feelings of loneliness or lack of connection to peers. Like there is no pill that makes that stop being something that someone's experiencing.

Melissa:

Or guilt from intrusive thoughts. Like sure, a pill can help take the edge off the intrusive thoughts and can be very effective and helpful. But the guilt that someone carries for having had those thoughts, like, yeah, like you need to know this is a thing. There's name for it. And so many parents have it, you know? Actually most humans experience them at some point in their life, you know?

Dani:

Yep. That's why I didn't talk about anything. It's scary to say the things out loud. Yeah. You're not hearing other people talk about it.

Melissa:

Right.

Dani:

And enter all of us like being in this advocacy role now for our career and being on a podcast and just shouting from the rooftops, right?

Emily:

Have you volunteered for PSI in any other capacities? Before we move on to the lightning round I want to hear about that.

Melissa:

Oh, absolutely. So remember what I said before, the foreshadowing. So for probably about two years, I started really like bugging Birdie at all the conferences. I started going to conferences in 2016 and I've been every year. It's been awesome. But I would like corner her in the line to get food or something. And I'd be like, Birdie, we really need a support group specifically for NICU. We really need this. And so I finally broke her down. And at some point in 2019, before I joined the staff, she and Carrie both said, okay, great, let's do this. Let's find you somebody else that you can work with. And so in, I think it was in October or November of 2019, we started the NICU support group. And this was before COVID, before the pandemic, where we had like maybe four groups a week. And so this was a new addition. Like most support groups, it was slow to start. Now it's huge. Like now that group has lots of people coming and the support they get and that they give each other is just beautiful. The ability to connect and hear other parents and know that like, you're not alone, you know, talking about like the little things that other parents might say, or like other people might say to you, like, oh, well, your baby was just ready to come early. Like-

Dani:

I don't want to hear that.

Melissa:

Yeah. That still makes me so mad because no, this had nothing to do with, like, Nick didn't want this. Like he didn't want to spend a whole month not at home in my arms. Like, no,

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

And they don't mean to be dismissive.

Dani:

They're trying to come from a good place but it just, it doesn't land the way that they anticipate, so.

Melissa:

Right, exactly. These little platitudes of like, oh everything happens for a reason, and like, your baby just has the most expensive babysitters right now. But then there were things that i felt guilty for. Like I really got to go home and sleep. Like when you're pregnant, like you're not sleeping great. And so I was able to go home and for a month actually sleep through the night, which kind of made it harder when he did come home, because I think all of that lack of sleep in pregnancy prepares you for having a newborn. But my body and my brain needed that healing. So I think that probably also was really helpful for me. But I felt guilty for admitting that or feeling that like, well, this is okay. You know, it's not okay. It was just terrible. So being able to connect with other parents that have gone through something similar, that's huge. So yeah, so I started the NICU support group. I guess a year before that, I helped start the Texas PSI chapter. And so that is still going well. So I guess I start things and hand them off. So- which is okay. That's what should be done as things progress. And now I help with the trainings. I help- just like Cody said last week on the training, I help moderate the trainings with her. There are three of us.

Dani:

Oh, oh, extra compet-

Emily:

Ooh.

Melissa:

I walk out of it feeling like, yeah, I know my stuff. Like that's reassuring, you know, to like- and there's a couple of questions. I'm not going to say I know everything. There are a couple of questions that I'm like, how did somebody else answer that one? And that's lovely.

Dani:

Well, Melissa, do you think?

Emily:

All right. Well, are we ready for the lightning round?

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Let's do it.

Emily:

Okay. I hope you've been like prepping yourself. Like, have you been like doing some calisthenics in the morning to like get yourself ready for the lightning round? You know what I'm saying?

Melissa:

I went for a long walk. I took Lucky for a walk. I went for a long walk and then I lifted some weight. So I'm ready. Let's do this.

Dani:

Perfect. Melissa, besides this podcast, what is your favorite podcast? If you'd like to recommend one to our listeners.

Melissa:

I really like this one. As a therapist, I'm really enjoying The Therapist Uncensored which is about attachment. I often listen to, um, Mom & Mind, of course, shout out to Dr. Kat, of course,

Dani:

Shout out.

Melissa:

So NPR has Life Kit.

Dani:

Oh, cool.

Melissa:

They do like little shorter ones that are just different topics. So I don't listen to all of them, but they had one on laundry recently and I was like, oh, I know how to do laundry. No problem. Oh no. They talked to this expert and he like threw everything on, you know,

Dani:

Its end?

Melissa:

out the window.

Dani:

Ah, about how we do laundry?

Melissa:

Yeah, I bought a book oh called Laundry Love and he has like, you know, a youtube video, but he's this dude that's up in the twin cities he has a store in the mall of america.

Emily:

Nice.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Dani:

We were just there we missed, it we didn't go there. I lived there for a year, but in- You didn't live in the mall?

Melissa:

No.

Dani:

Okay.

Melissa:

I can see how you would, like if you get lost.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Yeah, so I'm learning some there. So I like learning stuff, I just finished, not just finished but most recently I listened to the serial podcast about The Retrievals. I kind of wanted them to go a little further when it comes to like the treatment of women in mental health or sorry in physical medical spaces.

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

I was hoping they would go further, but it was still like really good.

Emily:

Well, I'm going to jump in and say that I'm going to predict the next answer.

Melissa:

Okay.

Emily:

Do you like a book in your ear or, hear me out, a book in your hand?

Melissa:

So these days, a book in my ear, I will tell you, like, I don't know if I have like a diagnosed ADHD or something in the sense that like, typically if I sit down to read, I fall asleep. I just- staying still, I just, I get too tired. I fall asleep.

Dani:

Oh no.

Melissa:

Yeah. Therefore I don't usually sit still. So in my ear while I'm walking my dog or taking a long walk in my neighborhood or sometimes driving, but usually I'm listening to music then. And as an aside, it's really funny, I really like rock and roll and like, I was born in like, I was a teenager in the nineties. And so I really liked Guns N' Roses. And there's one song, November Rain. At the very end, like part of like the little refrain that they keep saying over and over as it ends is you are not the only one. Cause at some point, like when I was a teenager, I needed to hear that.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melissa:

It just really resonated. And I absolutely like did something like, you know, like there's certain songs, they just like, yeah. And so I, you know, listening to it recently, I'm like, no wonder I love that because I'm all about connection. I'm all about like making sure that people don't feel alone.

Dani:

You're a little bit about connection, a little bit of rock and roll. You know what I'm saying?

Melissa:

Yeah. With all of these little connections. So when I was in college– I came up with this concept, I didn't trademark it– of PSI.

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

Long time before.

Dani:

Wow.

Melissa:

Positive social interaction. And my best buddy and I, Brenda, shout out. She's in Nashville now.

Dani:

Brenda.

Melissa:

Yeah. So Brenda, she and I, we just like, we talked about this one night, like what it's like. And like, especially like at the end of a night of like studying super hardcore, we're like, so in the zone and you haven't been talking to anybody else, like sometimes you just like are in a funk afterwards. Like you've got like, you're like a cartoon with like squiggly lines over your head. And my theory was, all you need is PSI. You just need a connection. You need positive social interaction. It could be going to the grocery store. It could be, you know, just like a little, well, at the time Starbucks wasn't around, but now it might be going to Starbucks to get like, you know, a drink, just having a positive interaction with another human being makes you feel like a human again, it's validating. And so she and I would on our voicemail, or no, sorry, on answering machines, because we're that old.

Emily:

Yeah.

Melissa:

And it would not be uncommon for me to come home and there's a message from Brenda that said, hey, I just finished studying for whatever final and I could just really use some PSI right now. Could you give me a call?

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

And that's all that had to be said. And I got it. It wasn't pathological. It wasn't anything else. It was just, I need to connect with another human being. And so I just think it's lovely that like, that is what we do, even as a coordinator, or as PSI in general. And the acronym is still the same.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Melissa, are you, is there anything special that you're reading right now? Maybe the book that you held up?

Melissa:

The Laundry Love. Yes. Yes. So far, yeah. I mean, it's kind of a reference material, which is not a bad thing. But I'm going to go ahead and jump to another one. I'm watching Lessons in Chemistry.

Dani:

Oh, I want to see that.

Emily:

It's on my short list.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

I read it. Well, okay. In my ears. I listened to it last year and loved it. It was awesome. And so now I don't want it to end. So I'm actually like a few episodes behind already.

Dani:

I'm with you. I do that too.

Emily:

I do not understand you guys. That's just weird to me.

Dani:

Because we're emotional, okay?

Emily:

I have feelings.

Dani:

I'm just kidding. I know you do. Emily does have feelings.

Melissa:

Yes, she does.

Dani:

Let it be known on the podcast. Yes. Very important question though.

Emily:

What is your go-to for a quick mental break?

Melissa:

Quick mental break, music.

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

Always music.

Dani:

Like turn it on put it in your ears or play it, and do you dance or just listen?

Melissa:

And it just depends, like wherever I am, like when I'm working, like it just, you know, going through phases. Like a couple years ago I think after my dad died, I went through a phase where it was all 70s folk rock.

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

Or like 70s folk music.

Dani:

Oh, nice.

Melissa:

And it was just like I don't- and my kids would ask me like, why are you listening to The Bridge? Or why are you listening to, oh, Yacht Rock. Why are you listening to Yacht Rock? And I was like, I don't know. It's just there's something that, it's meeting a need. It's filling my soul somehow. Yeah. And then Foo Fighters right now is my big one.

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

Oh.

Dani:

Dang.

Melissa:

And that's partly after listening to the audio book of Dave Grohl.

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

It's so good. I haven't seen them live. I could have because they played twice at ACL, the Austin City Limits.

Dani:

Oh.

Melissa:

And so I don't know. Concerts kind of lost luster to me a little bit. But I've had a couple that were like religious experiences.

Dani:

Melissa, what is your best parenting hack?

Melissa:

Ooh. Be silly, silly, silly. Oh, maybe I should share it here. Ooh. Okay.

Emily:

Go on.

Melissa:

Okay.

Dani:

We're listening.

Melissa:

When you're in the parking lot with your kiddos, what I did with my kids, because we use I language, I found it helpful–

Dani:

Good job, Melissa. Have you done this before?

Melissa:

Yeah, exactly. I have found it helpful to make silly songs. And we have lots of inside jokes in my family. We still talk about them to this day. Like, you know, if I lost a spoon, here is, here is, because Max said here is for a while, and it was so cute. So now everything, he's 16, like whatever. He is like, where is my phone? Here is! Here's my hack in the parking lot– we hold our hands in a parking lot, we hold our hands in the parking lot, we hold our hands in a parking lot so we can be safe. So we can be safe, so we can be safe. And then it kind of fizzles out. But then as they got older and they didn't really like that as much, we changed the words. So then it became, so we can be noodles. So we can be noodles. I don't know why it became noodles.

Emily:

Oh yeah. You got to like mix it up.

Melissa:

And then when they get even older, but they're still at the age where they need to be holding your hand for safety.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Threaten. I'll sing. You better hold my hand or I'm going to sing.

Emily:

I'm going to sing it out loud in front of everybody.

Melissa:

They grab my hand so fast. It's awesome. So I have shared it with a few parents that look like they were struggling with the little power thing going on in the parking lot. And I still use it, but I, it was huge. It was huge for me.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

That's amazing.

Dani:

Sometimes that's really hard to do in the moment when you're feeling frustrated and you just need to get your point across. That's not the best way to like make that connection with the kid in that moment. So Melissa, love that.

Melissa:

Yeah. So there you go. Playful Parenting. I have the book somewhere in here.

Emily:

Oh, yeah.

Dani:

Playful parenting.

Melissa:

Playful parenting.

Emily:

Oh, I have that one. That's a good one.

Melissa:

Yeah. I really enjoyed that one too. And it worked with my kids. It may not work with everybody's kids, but, you know. And being real, being honest, like telling them how you're feeling, you know, kind of owning your feelings. Like mommy's feeling really frustrated right now. So I need, mommy needs a little bit of time.

Dani:

I'm going to go in my room for two minutes and then I'm going to come back out and I'll be ready to...

Melissa:

Exactly. Exactly. And then lately, if you guys have seen the TED Talk about repair, if you screw up.

Dani:

Oh, yeah. It's okay to do that, but coming back and making that repair.

Melissa:

Yeah. And it's really important. So, you know, it's a lifelong struggle. It's not, no, we're not going to get it perfect or right every time.

Dani:

Emily's favorite question is coming up next. Emily?

Emily:

How do you take your water?

Melissa:

I prefer it to go through ground up coffee and then add milk and sugar. That's my preferred way. That's right.

Dani:

Great.

Emily:

Fantastic.

Melissa:

So that's my preference, but otherwise flat. I don't like bubbly water.

Emily:

Oh, okay.

Dani:

Not a fan.

Melissa:

Never did it for me. And then I do prefer ice because I'm in Texas and it's almost always hot.

Dani:

Yeah.

Melissa:

Yeah. I don't even need flavor in it. Just some ice. That's good. But preferably with coffee.

Dani:

Excellent.

Emily:

Preferably coffee. Got it.

Dani:

Yeah. Coffee, coffee water.

Melissa:

Yeah.

Dani:

I like it. Well, Melissa, if anybody would like to get ahold of you, maybe they have questions for you, they want to talk about coordinators or just say hello or whatever. Is there a specific way that they could get ahold of you.

Melissa:

Totally. Coordinators@postpartum.net.

Dani:

Easy enough. Emily, would you like to take us out?

Emily:

Melissa, thank you so much for joining us today. I really love that your story is a little bit more roundabout than some of the rest of the folks that we've had on the pod. And I am really glad that you kept hounding Birdie and Carrie until we got that NICU support group because it's so important. Peer support is where it's at, which is why I think this podcast works because that's what we're doing, is we're talking about it. So thank you.

Melissa:

And I will say I learned from your podcast as well. Like, even though, I know, I'm PMH-C, like, you know, I've got a little alphabet behind after my name, but still, I mean, listen, some of the episodes like has given me different perspective and understanding of the experience. So as a volunteer, as a professional, as a human, I have learned from this podcast as well. So I applaud you two.

Dani:

Oh, Melissa. Thanks.

Melissa:

And all the people that go into this.

Dani:

Thank you for adding another perspective. We so appreciate you.

Melissa:

You're welcome.

Dani:

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time and, well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

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Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
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Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host