I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

ESZTER KALMAN - I AM ONE Immigrant Mom Whose Struggle is the Healing Guide for Others

• Season 2 • Episode 24

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On today’s episode, we’re sitting down with the fabulous Eszter Kalman, a Licensed Perinatal Psychotherapist, a longtime PSI volunteer on the Helpline, and now she’s lending her volunteer skills to content creation with the social media team. We’ll hear all about how incredibly lonely motherhood felt after moving from Hungary to the United States. We’ll also hear about Eszter’s experience with postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, and how the shame and guilt of experiencing intrusive thoughts held her back from seeking help as soon as she needed it. We loved every second of this conversation. So, without any further ado, sit back and enjoy this episode with our friend, Eszter!

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Dani:

On today's episode, we're sitting down with the fabulous Eszter Kalman, a licensed perinatal psychotherapist, a longtime PSI volunteer on the helpline, and now she's lending her volunteer skills to content creation with the social media team. We'll hear all about how incredibly lonely motherhood felt for Eszter after moving from Hungary to the United States. We'll also hear about her experience with postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, and how the shame and guilt of experiencing intrusive thoughts held her back from seeking help as soon as she needed it. We loved every second of this conversation, so without any further ado, sit back and enjoy this episode with our friend Eszter. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the I Am One podcast are the speaker's own. Tuning into this podcast is not a replacement for therapy or any other form of professional help. Our discussions cover personal stories of perinatal mental health disorders and may feel triggering to some listeners. Your number one priority is to take care of yourself. So if you are in need of support, please reach out to the PSI helpline by calling or texting H-E-L-P to 1-800-944-4773 for help in English and in Spanish. At PSI, we want you to know you are not alone, you are not to blame, and with help, you will be well. Okay, let's get on with the podcast. Eszter, welcome to the podcast, friend. We are so happy to be here sitting with you today. and chatting about all things perinatal mental health with you to hear a little bit about your lived experience and what you're doing to support folks in the perinatal period today. So welcome. Thanks for being here.

Eszter:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Emily:

We're very lucky.

Dani:

Yeah. Eszter, if you would be so kind, could you give us a little bit of an introduction to who you are for those listeners who don't know you.

Eszter:

Yes, my name is Eszter Kalman and I live in beautiful San Diego, California. I'm a licensed clinical social worker specializing in perinatal mental health. I work in private practice, only telehealth. So I see all clients all across the state of California. And that's my professional background. And I am also a mom of two. I have an 11 and a three-year-old. I am a dog mom.

Dani:

Yeah. Anybody follows Eszter on Instagram, you can see her taking her dog for walks.

Eszter:

Yeah. That's my, that's my self-care. Yeah. That's my favorite thing to do. Taking my dog for a walk. Today we walked five miles. So that was good.

Dani:

Oh, dang Eszter. Like early in the morning?

Eszter:

Not early.

Dani:

Just one that you can fit it in.

Eszter:

Like in the morning, yeah, yeah. So that's about me, also I mean we're gonna get into the details on my own experience with postpartum.

Emily:

Oh yeah we are. Okay so can you tell us a little bit about your lived experience with perinatal mental health like how did it show up in your life uninvited, what did it look like, and then, you know, take us through that a little bit.

Eszter:

Yes so as you can hear I was not born and raised in this country, originally I'm from Hungary. That's a country in Europe right next to Austria and I moved to the state back in 2011. My husband is from here, and the reason why I think it's an important backstory because basically I was a newly immigrant living in the U.S. Complete culture shock. Everything was very different. I didn't have my family here. I didn't have my support system. My marriage was brand new. I didn't even really know my husband, which matters a lot when you're in a brand new relationship and then within a year you just have a baby. My parents' family was not around. And also it was a very different culture from my culture, different family culture. And another thing I think that really played a role in my experience with postpartum depression and anxiety that I lost my mom back in 2006. And I had a very close relationship with her.

Emily:

So just like five years before. That's really close. Yeah.

Eszter:

Yeah. And, you know, like all of these different factors added together and then just becoming a mom in a brand new country where everything is new and you don't have that support system, that really hit me hard, even though when it really hit me, I didn't even really know that. So, and I think that's very common among moms that they don't even know that they are struggling. They just feel that it's hard and they don't know what's going on. They think that's normal. Really, when my son was born, I mean, the pregnancy was fine. So I was really fortunate. That was not a big deal for me. But then right after my son was born, a week or two weeks after, I really didn't feel supported, even by my husband, by his family. I didn't have anybody to call or really nobody checked on me because I didn't even have friends. I was so new that I had nobody, literally no one.

Dani:

Was there a language barrier, Eszter? Did you already speak English before you moved here?

Eszter:

I did. I did. I mean, not the way I speak now, but no, I was fluent in English. But still, even then, you know, it's not just the language, right? It's more like the culture that is attached to the language, you know? So going to a hospital for the first time in the States was when I actually went to give birth. And that is pretty, pretty scary.

Emily:

I have a question. So you were talking about not feeling supported by your husband and his family. Was some of that the difference in sort of like your culture and your expectations around what support would look like? Or was that also like they needed to kind of step it up a little bit, you know?

Eszter:

No, they needed to step it up. Yeah, I really felt like that they were not considering the fact that I just gave birth and I need help and I'm exhausted and I'm tired. And maybe it's more important to cook food for me than, I don't know, going to the DMV to renew the driver's license. You know, like things like that. Just to give you a specific example.

Dani:

Let's just take care of basic needs first. How about that?

Emily:

Right.

Dani:

Okay. Right. Okay.

Eszter:

Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I mean, and I don't know how my family would have supported me because they were not here. Right? And I didn't have my mom. But I have no doubt that if my mom had been still alive, you know, she would have helped me. And even then, even if she had been still alive, I could have called her, right? Like that's the other thing. I had nobody to talk to. And I was so isolated. I remember for a week, I wouldn't leave the house. I wouldn't leave the house at all. And at the time, I didn't even notice that. Like just five, seven, six days, it just went by so quickly, so fast. And honestly, I think I really struggled with something that I think all moms can struggle depending on their support that, you know, I didn't get the help at night from my husband because saying that, well, then we both going to be very tired in the morning and I have to go to work, which is true. But then I was exhausted and I was very tired and I had no other support. I had no one to talk to. And this whole thing went on for more than a year. And even though, you know, I would talk to people here and there, it's just the total isolation and not- the way I like to describe it, that I really I loved my son, but I didn't feel it. I knew I loved him, but I didn't feel it. I didn't have that connection, trouble bonding, total feelings of guilt and shame, like flooding in that. Even though I had or I knew a nurse who was very helpful and she would visit me time to time. She was the only one that I kind of felt safe with. But even I wouldn't tell her. Oh, and her job was to screen me, right? To screen me with the Edinburgh scale. I think that's what they use.

Emily:

They're like, yep, everything's fine.

Eszter:

Yeah.

Dani:

How are you doing today? I'm just fine.

Eszter:

And it went on and on for so many months and yeah I was in a really, really bad- I didn't have suicidal thoughts or anything like that but I was always worried, always anxious I wouldn't want

Eszter: anybody to visit us, I didn't want anybody to touch my baby. Okay, this is how extreme it got:

my son's

Eszter:

bedroom was next to the bathroom and at night I forbid everyone to flush the toilet, literally.

Dani:

Not allowed.

Emily:

Oh, were you're worried about him waking up?

Eszter:

Exactly.

Emily:

Oh my god, I did that too for that same reason.

Eszter:

Yeah.

Emily:

do not wake this baby

Eszter:

Yeah and then people didn't understand so what if the baby wakes up, and I remember I got so mad at them whoever asked me what do you mean, what do you mean? because then i have to take care-

Dani:

And it's the end of the world so let's not do it.

Eszter:

Yeah, let's not do it. I'm gonna have to deal with it and I don't want to, I want to sleep, you know? So yeah, crazy things like that.

Dani:

You are not alone in being fully open with your provider about how you were really feeling.

Eszter:

Not at all. Oh, and then another thing that I remember when I went back for my six week follow up, right? And I took my baby in the car, seat sleeping, you know, while the OBGYN, you know, has to do the exam on me. And she wasn't there at the birth because, you know, whoever was on duty was there. and I never forget that she didn't even look at my baby. And I know she sees lots of babies, but come on. You were my doctor for nine months. I go back for my six-week checkup. Would you could just pretend that you care that I had a baby, right? Just look at it. And even if you just want to lie to me like, oh, what a cute baby. It doesn't matter. Just acknowledge that I had a baby, you know?

Emily:

I don't know if you're aware, but I've been through some things and there's a baby over there.

Dani:

This is what you were monitoring for the last nine months. This thing over here.

Eszter:

Yeah. And then even in the hospital, and actually that happened both times, even at my daughter's birth and my son's birth. That's crazy how medical providers like a labor and delivery nurse would tell you not to push because they were waiting for the doctor.

Emily:

Don't tell me what to do.

Dani:

Oh, okay.

Eszter:

And and it was thinking like, are you serious, like if I had any choice, you know, just like the feeling, like they don't really pay attention to you, like, you know, telling you things that are are not feasible, right? Like you can hold that back. And the same exact thing happened, so it was a horrible experience with my son, and I knew that when I was getting ready to give birth with my daughter, I even told myself, told my husband, everybody that, if anybody tells me the same thing not to push, I'm just gonna tell them that try to stop me from it, you know?

Emily:

Right.

Eszter:

Just try.

Dani:

Don't mess with the pregnant lady.

Eszter:

Yeah don't mess with- right, and that's exactly what happened with my daughter's birth. Anyways, so just yeah, going back to my son, so all of those postpartum ocd constantly worrying about him or just worrying about other people waking him up. Not even germs, not even that he's going to get sick just leave us alone because then I have to work and I have to deal with everything. And so this whole combination of the culture shock, being new to the to the state, being new to my husband, really, and being new to his family, all of that. Or even I remember my aunt came to visit and she made that comment and it's so interesting how it stays with you, how these comments stay with you. She told me, because I told her about how I felt, right, more or less and then she said, well then you shouldn't have had- how do you say that, oh my gosh.

Dani:

You shouldn't have had a baby?

Eszter:

Yeah, you shouldn't have had a baby.

Emily:

Oh, why didn't I think of that?

Dani:

I mean, thank you.

Eszter:

Really, and that was my aunt who has two children, you know, and she's a great woman but up until now I still remember that she said that, you know? So just like the whole thing everybody goes through like, who am I today? You know, I miss the person who I was before. Because I've always had this free spirit. I still have that. You know, I want to do what I want to do. And nobody's helping me to be able to do those things. And then that's it. Like, who am I today? What am I going to do with my life? I don't like this. I actually hate this sometimes. And then all the guilt and shame that comes with it. So, and then there was this nurse. I said that she would make me fill out that, you know, questionnaire where I, every single time I would lie and lie and lie. And then it came to a point and my son was more than a year old. My son was more than a year old when I, I didn't even fail at the questionnaire. I know it was just one night I was at home and I just thought, okay, I'm just going to send a message to her that I'm just not feeling well and I need help. And I don't even remember searching up anything online about it. Nothing, zero, it's just out of nowhere I just said I'm not feeling well, and she was the one then who connected me to PSI and told me to, you know, call and then they can help me, and this is how I found my therapist at the time. Oh my gosh it was so good, I even feel it right now, good, it was the first time when I went there and then I just let it out and I just told everything, right? Like, this is how I feel. I hate it. And this, this, this, this, all of the things. And then she was the first person who just didn't judge me, didn't tell me, oh, you shouldn't have had a baby then, or, you know, just suck it up.

Dani:

I was just wondering, I think you answered my question. I was wondering what made you feel safe to open up and share what you had been like withholding every time you saw your doctor and said, nope, all good here. Everything's cool.

Eszter:

Yeah, it's just really that simple as that. Like someone's just sitting there and listening to you. And that's the great thing about my job today too, that you just sit and listen and you don't judge the other person. And that's how I felt it. I was not judged at all. And I could tell her. And then finally, I was not labeled as the crazy Hungarian woman.

Dani:

Is that what you thought of yourself?

Eszter:

No I didn't think I was crazy, I just didn't know what was going on, I just thought that something was wrong and I and I just really felt the lack of support. I mean to be honest even right now I don't have the support like I still don't have a family here, you know, it's still the same in that sense. The difference is that I know how to manage now and you know my kids are obviously older too and you know, it's different now. But that was lack of support and then just fights and arguments, and then finally I found a therapist who really just knew what to say or, better, what not to say and just sit with it. And every single Friday I was at her office and that was the highlight of my week, when I could just run to her office and just tell her. And you know what? Even my husband told me that, oh you're such a different person, like you know, every Friday when you come home you're just a whole nother completely different person. So, you know, he was very supportive of that too and that's how the whole journey started for me, and then while I was in therapy I was sitting there and I started to wonder, okay what should I do next, right? Because before I would work in tourism and I lived in Rome before I moved here so I worked there as a tour guide.

Dani:

Eszter, hold on. Let's pause the interview. Could you take us on a tour somewhere? Hey, Eszter, do you want to go on a trip? Girls trip.

Eszter:

I would, yeah. Let's go to Rome.

Dani:

Okay.

Eszter:

That's where I met my husband, in Rome.

Emily:

Oh.

Eszter:

Yeah, that's how we met.

Dani:

Was he a tour guide as well?

Eszter:

No, he was a tourist.

Dani:

Eszter, you're not supposed to do that.

Eszter:

I didn't do anything at the time.

Dani:

Okay.

Eszter:

He was backpacking all around Europe and that's how we, and Rome was the last top.

Dani:

Oh, there you were.

Eszter:

Yeah. That's when we met.

Dani:

Heard it here first. Oh my goodness. Well, okay. So you called, you called the PSI helpline. You got connected with a therapist in your area. And did you ever like receive a diagnosis? Like were you diagnosed by your therapist? Like it sounds like you mentioned like anxiety, OCD, maybe depression.

Eszter:

Yeah. Well, you know what? At the time she just told me, I mean, it wasn't really like a real diagnosis because, you know, it was private practice and I was not using my health insurance. So, you know, really.

Emily:

Relatable.

Eszter:

Yeah. Or I couldn't, I guess, use my health insurance, but I wanted to. I think she told me that I have a mild postpartum depression. And you know what? Whether if it's true or not, because I know I had all of the above, you know, anxiety and OCD and depression. It really, in a way, doesn't matter because you just want to get the help you need.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

I was just going to say a rose by any other name still smells like it needs help. That's all I'm saying.

Eszter:

Exactly. It doesn't matter what we call it. You know, but it wasn't as severe that I would need medication. So I know I also discussed that with my therapist and she asked me, like, would you want to take medication? Because then I can refer you, you know, to a psychiatrist or just how bad I feel, I guess, to see. But I was fortunate that I didn't need that because I could still, you know, take care of everything at home and, you know, take care of my baby. And I guess that's why the diagnosis was not that crucial either.

Dani:

Talk therapy, lifestyle changes. Yeah.

Eszter:

Yeah. And I remember when my therapist told me that you have to take that. My homework was to take three hours for myself on a Thursday. And I know I was so worried and anxious about it. I didn't know what to do, where to go, what's going to happen to my baby. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. And I did it, but I hated every single-

Dani:

Three hours to myself. Ugh

Eszter:

That's how bad it gets. But right now I know exactly what to do. You know, it wouldn't be an issue. But at the time it was so bad. Like that constant worry and the guilt, everything. And I suffered through those three hours. And I was just walking around alone in San Diego because I didn't have friends still. Right? I didn't know anyone.

Dani:

Eszter didn't know us yet.

Emily:

I know. Listen, I'll come hang out anytime, especially in the winter.

Dani:

Yes.

Eszter:

Come over. And I'm going to meet my friends because now I have friends.

Dani:

Yeah.

Eszter:

You're welcome to come here anytime. But I just thought how pathetic that I felt, or I was walking around San Diego alone. Yeah.

Dani:

Yeah. I mean, that's really hard when you think, when you're telling yourself that you are supposed to be in charge of all the things related to your baby. And really, you know, that wasn't your job. Yeah. But you made it through three hours.

Eszter:

Yeah. I made it through three hours. I was so happy to go home. And then again, my OCD kicked in when I went home. The things were not the way I left. You know, the toys were out or whatever.

Emily:

It was only three hours. How hard was it to hold down the fort? Come on.

Eszter:

Yeah. Anyway.

Emily:

I have questions.

Dani:

Okay. So how long after you reached out, Eszter, and, you know, started seeing a therapist, how long until you decided what's next in your life? You mentioned that a little bit. You were starting to think, what am I going to do next?

Eszter:

Yeah, I think it was, let me think, yeah, about a year. One day I was just sitting there with her, with the therapist. And then I was thinking, what am I going to do? I don't want to go back to work in tourism. I knew I didn't want to do that. And then I remember I was sitting there and I looked at her and I said, I want to do what you do.

Dani:

I want to be you.

Eszter:

I want to be you. I want to do what you do. And then, you know, and then I just started looking into things because that was, again, another culture shocker. How do you go to school here? Right? What degree do you need and how does that work? So then that was the next challenge or the next step to take. But it was about a year after I started seeing her and I very quickly I felt better. Really, it was so quick. And that really helped me, too, that I said, OK, let me just start doing it. And then I applied. I know I applied for the San Diego State University. You needed all those different kinds of papers. It was such a hustle to get in. But that's how I got eventually, when I got in through their master's program, that's how I got connected also to PSI. So I got in, you know, I decided in therapy, I'm going to go back to school. You know, my therapist helped me in terms of, you know, just educating me on how things work in the United States when you want to go to school.

Emily:

Yeah.

Eszter:

So I did all that. I got in and then you get into the master's program. Now the English, because he asked me how was my English. So when I started school and I was fluent in English.

Dani:

Yeah.

Eszter:

However, in my first month in school, I remember I had actual headache because I didn't understand like 90% of the things because it's so different, such a different language when you're in a, you know, in a lecture or seminars and reading all those texts.

Dani:

It's not conversational all the time.

Eszter:

No, no. So it took me a while to adjust, but that worked. But then since this was my mission that I'm going to become a therapist, perinatal mental health therapist, that every single project, papers, everything that I did was on the topic, right? Everything, every single school assignment was on this topic. So, and I know my first assignment was, I don't know what, some research, I don't even know what it was, but basically I was thinking, okay, I'm going to find the information for this. And that's how PSI came along. And I discovered it. And that's how I started. And I reached out to, I think even Wendy, I think I reached out to her. And I think she connected me to Anne, who used to be the board president. And I still remember I was on campus and I messaged her and I asked, can I call you? Because I have a few questions. And I called her on the cell phone and she was on the phone with me for like an hour and a half.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Wow.

Eszter:

Asking and asking questions about whatever my topic was. And she was super helpful. And that's how the whole relationship started with PSI because I really, you know, I found it very nice of her and everyone who I got in touch with to be so helpful. Just that I'm no one from San Diego at a university writing a paper, right? No, you're someone. Right, but you know just, and then, and that's how and I said okay let me be a volunteer for this organization and then you know at the time I think it was only Lianne and Wendy that only up they were PSI, right?

Dani:

The whole team, whole team's here!

Eszter:

And that's how I got started, the whole volunteering, I started out as a help line volunteer.

Dani:

Oh awesome.

Eszter:

And then I found a local one here in San Diego the postpartum health alliance of San Diego so

Emily:

Yeah.

Eszter:

That's how the whole thing started.

Emily:

I feel like what you're talking about is the thing that happens to all of us like no matter where we are in our professional journey with PSI, with perinatal mental health, or wherever we are in our like personal recovery with perinatal mental health. Someone's like, does anyone want to talk about feelings and newborns? And people are like– and everyone just gets really excited and starts talking about all like, it's like, what do you want to know? How can I connect you to the right people? Like I know someone who might know someone. We're all building the village that we didn't have.

Eszter:

Yeah, absolutely. Because I really didn't have a village. And many moms don't have a village at all.

Dani:

What are you doing with PSI these days, Eszter?

Eszter:

So I was a helpline volunteer for like seven years.

Dani:

Oh my goodness.

Eszter:

Yeah. Yeah. But then I made a shift. And now I am making videos, basically. Like educational posts and videos. And I'm tagging everybody. And they share it. So yeah, that's what I do now, so it's more like creating posts

Emily:

So your creative free spirit mojo is back is what you're saying?

Eszter:

Yes, yes.

Emily:

Okay.

Dani:

Back in the game.

Eszter:

I like to do that, yeah.

Dani:

Yeah, Eszter's got some great social media content.

Eszter:

Goldentearstherapy.

Dani:

Can you tell us what you're doing to support folks in the perinatal period now, Eszter.

Eszter:

So right now I'm in private practice and I see parents, new moms, pregnant moms, and first time or second time parents that are struggling or want to prevent the struggle that they experienced with their first baby so it's a fun, honestly I really love it, I enjoy working so much and and I love doing telehealth so more people have access, or more parents, especially moms in the postpartum period, like they have easier access to therapy. And I have babies in the session just like that. You know, they can just breastfeed. They just got out of bed. Actually, I have a client who is always in bed and breastfeeding while we're in session. And it's so amazing. You know, like technology is the best. And it really helps them to get the help they need.

Dani:

Oh, yeah. Really removes the barrier to get help, you know? Yeah. Because I know it's hard to get out of the house. Did you do telehealth? Have you always done telehealth or has it just been like since the pandemic?

Eszter:

So before the pandemic, I was still in community mental health. And then during pandemic, I started my private practice. So then it was telehealth right away. And I thought I would not like it, but I actually love it.

Dani:

Yeah. Eszter has some really great social media content, so you should follow her. And she has content in English and Hungarian.

Eszter:

That was my newest baby that I thought, OK, I've been creating this content in English, which I continue to do. But then I thought in Hungary, you know, we say that here in the U.S., it's so not spoken, such a taboo stigma. But in Hungary or in many other countries, including Hungary, it's even worse. It's so, so much stigma around mental health, way more than here, way more. So I thought, OK, let me start talking about it in Hungarian as well. So I created a Hungarian account on Instagram, and that's what I also do. So I create Hungarian and English content on the topic.

Dani:

I don't understand a word of Hungarian, but I love listening to those reels. Just throwing that out there.

Emily:

Okay. I have a question. So some of the folks that you meet with, like through your therapy sessions are coming to you because they want to avoid whatever it was that they dealt with the first go round. So do you have any like hot tips for people? Like what's your, do you have like a checklist? How do you tell people to avoid or put plans and safeties in place so that when you feel symptoms a second time around, you know what to do instead of like, what's happening to me?

Eszter:

Yeah, I mean, basically, that's kind of the answer because you can't really guarantee that it's not going to happen, right? I mean, nobody knows, but the best thing is what that actual parent does is to start therapy before the birth of the child and then really planning for the postpartum period. Because everybody plans, you know, for the birth. Everybody hears about birth plans. But then once the baby's born, then big silence, like a long straight line and nothing, no plan. What now? And, you know, maybe those classes talk about, I don't know, how to put the diaper on or, you know, how to take care of the baby. But there's really no postpartum mental health plan, which this is what I do often with those folks that see me during their second pregnancy. And we plan for not only for the physical health, which impacts the mental health as well, but also we kind of break it down to mental, emotional health, social health, as I like to call it. like how to stay connected to the people that are important to you. And then also understanding yourself, right? Like what's my baseline? Because maybe naturally I'm more of a person that likes to be alone a lot, right? Or I'm naturally more on the sad side. I mean, I don't know how to say it nicer, but basically not everybody is depressed just because they are sitting quietly, right? In the room. So that's someone's baseline. So understanding your symptoms. What triggers you, right? Maybe if there's too many visitors at your house, that's really triggering for you. But there's people who love the visitors, right? And that's actually helping. So it really, really just learning who you are, what triggers you, what does that look like for you to feel anxious, to feel depressed and being aware of that. And once you have that knowledge, then you also know better when to ask for help. When it comes to asking for help then really understanding and practicing to be super freaking specific because just because someone is there, let's say your husband or wife or anybody family members, friends, they are have all the best and good intentions and they come to you and they start helping you, maybe you perceive that as the worst thing that can happen. So just because someone's there to help, it doesn't mean you perceive it as help. So really being clear about what helps, what does help look like for you? What do you need and how to communicate that? So getting comfortable with those things, getting comfortable setting boundaries, meaning have a very clear communication. So then and also just to kind of processing through all those feelings and emotions that come up during pregnancy and postpartum.

Emily:

This is why someone like you who is a qualified therapist is so important because if someone asked me, my advice would be based on the type of personality that I have and what I need. And I would be like, well, you should definitely invite a bunch of people over, like right after you get home from the hospital so that you can have a welcome home party. And anyone who does not want that would be horrified.

Dani:

I would be like, that sounds terrible. Terrible. Zero stars.

Eszter:

I don't want anybody here. Leave me alone.

Emily:

I hosted a party after my second kid was born. Like, I want to say he was like two or three weeks old. And it was amazing. Like, it was amazing to have a bunch of people over at once. And then to be able to like send everybody home and take a nap.

Dani:

Eszter and I love that for you.

Emily:

Not everyone wants that.

Eszter:

But you see, Emily, that's for you. And that's great. You know, whatever. Because that fills your cup, right? But that would totally deplete me. Or Dani.

Emily:

You'd be like-

Dani:

That would smack my cup off the table.

Eszter:

Yeah. So that's why it's so important, right? Just to really break it down and understand yourself. And with the help of a therapist, you can do that. Right?

Dani:

Yeah.

Eszter:

Actually, I have- oh, yeah. And that's what on my website, my brand new postpartum plan, which is totally free and downloadable.

Dani:

Great.

Eszter:

But right now, I don't know when this will come out, but I'm kind of doing some upgrades to my website. And once that's done, then I'm going to have the new postpartum plan up. But that's exactly focusing on that. Obviously, that wouldn't substitute, you know, the help of a mental health professional, but it just breaks it down to these pieces like physical health, mental health. What are my triggers? Who can help me? Who's my village? All of that.

Dani:

Great. Well, we will drop the links to all the things in our show notes. Eszter, I think it's about that time for some fun questions in the lightning round. Are you ready?

Eszter:

Let's do it.

Dani:

Okay, Eszter, besides this podcast, what is your favorite podcast?

Eszter:

Club Random with Bill Moore. Whoa.

Emily:

Oh.

Eszter:

What was the "oh"?

Emily:

I was not expecting that. I mean, we've had a run of murder podcasts. So this is a total departure.

Eszter:

Yeah.

Dani:

Everybody's like really into the murder pods. I'm not, they scare me.

Eszter:

I hear that. all the time. I don't like it. No, I like Club Random with Bill Moore. That's my favorite.

Dani:

We haven't heard that one before.

Emily:

All right. This next question assumes that you are a reader or a listener of some kind. So if you are going to read a book, do you prefer a book in your hand or a book in your ear?

Eszter:

In my ear. Yeah, that's the only way. I mean, there's no way for me to focus on any other way and I'm busy.

Emily:

What are you listening to? Anything good?

Eszter:

I'm listening to The Myth of Normal, which is a book by this Hungarian-Canadian psychiatrist whose name is Gabor Maté, but in Hungarian, you would say Maté Gabor.

Dani:

That's beautiful.

Eszter:

He was all like a trauma expert or one of the biggest names in the world of trauma and mental health. So that's his newest book, The Myth of Normal.

Dani:

Excellent.

Eszter:

You can hear the thing.

Dani:

Yeah. Vacuum in the background.

Emily:

This is self-care, people, in real time.

Dani:

Listen, you're going to have to deal with the vacuum, people. This is real life.

Emily:

Exactly.

Dani:

Okay. So Eszter, what's your go-to for a quick mental break? I think I might know.

Eszter:

Yeah. Like taking my dog, dog walk. Even if I, let's say if I have an hour between sessions, let's go for a walk. Yeah.

Dani:

What's your dog's name? Follow up question.

Eszter:

Niners, like the 49ers because we are big 49er fans. So Niners.

Emily:

Oh, that's right.

Dani:

All the Seahawk fans need to settle down a little bit. Eszter's really nice. Don't let the West Coast rivalry get in the way of this relationship.

Eszter:

No.

Dani:

All right. Eszter, what is your best parenting hack?

Eszter:

Best parenting hack is sometimes just to really leave them alone, like let them be bored or frustrated a little bit and let them figure it out. And they're going to be fine. Because I feel like always attending to the kid's need, Like every single time, it's not only exhausting for me, but it's not really helpful often.

Dani:

So we're not supposed to rescue them all the time. Okay.

Eszter:

No.

Dani:

I'm going to write that down.

Eszter:

Let them figure it out.

Dani:

Don't rescue. Just taking some notes for myself.

Emily:

You might want to put an asterisk next to that and clarify the context in which we do rescue.

Dani:

Only in an emergency.

Emily:

There it is.

Eszter:

Only emergency. Exactly.

Dani:

Yeah. There's an emergency, Eszter said don't rescue. I'm kidding. Eszter, what is one way that you are going to show show yourself some radical self-love today.

Eszter:

It's friday today, so I am not going to cook, because I cook a lot. I love to cook and bake, but you know what, it's different when you have to do it, as opposed to let me just do it for fun. And sometimes I just say okay I'm not gonna cook today, if you're gonna eat fruit or just sandwiches or whatever I'm okay with that. We're gonna all survive.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

That's great advice.

Emily:

cereal is a perfectly acceptable dinner option yeah

Dani:

Emily has a meal called yo-yo at her house...

Emily:

You're on your own.

Eszter:

I love that.

Emily:

To be fair I have 15, 13, and an 11 year old so they are actually all capable of cooking or preparing.

Eszter:

Yeah.

Emily:

I am not capable of cleaning up after four or five different people who cook and prepare their own meals, that's where it goes off the rails, but...

Eszter:

Yeah, and use paper plates. It's okay, you know? Like use paper plates, it's okay to use that sometimes. And also, you know, like you said yo-yo, like I would call that yogurt with, I don't know, just throw some granola and fruit on it and that's even healthy and have breakfast for dinner.

Dani:

Oh that's always a big hit in our house.

Emily:

God that's my favorite

Eszter:

Yeah.

Dani:

I could go for some breakfast right now.

Emily:

Right.

Dani:

It's almost lunchtime on the West coast. Emily, would you like to ask your favorite question?

Emily:

My favorite question has to do with hydration. How do you take your water? Bubbles, no bubbles, ice, no ice, flavor?

Eszter:

No, no bubbles. I just have it here.

Emily:

Do you only drink it when it's, when it's been like through coffee, ground up coffee beans?

Dani:

No, it's in her water bottle.

Emily:

I am teasing.

Dani:

Hey, listeners. Eszter just held up a beautiful purple water bottle that looks like it's missing- it looks like there's some real estate on there for a snazzy podcast sticker.

Emily:

A snazzy sticker?

Eszter:

What?

Dani:

We're going to send your way, Eszter. We have some exclusive stickers only for podcast guests right now. Look at that.

Eszter:

Ooh, yes. Please do. Send it to me.

Emily:

I am holding up a pod sticker. It's holographic or hologrammy. It's not actually holographic.

Eszter:

Why is that your favorite question, dehydration?

Emily:

Okay. Because Dr. Kat, who we know as a fellow podcaster, I met her for the first time in real life at the water station at one of the PSI conferences. And we had like an entire conversation about the fruit infused water that we were both drinking. And I was like, I feel like, A, I'm terrible at hydrating and really need to remind myself to do it. So hopefully for listeners that are hearing us talk about water, they're like, oh, I should go do that. And also, because I think, you know, it's sort of like a special podcasty adjacent memory for me. I don't know.

Eszter:

I like the cucumber infused water.

Emily:

That was one of the options there.

Dani:

We should do like a pod meetup at the next conference near the water station.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

With special guest, Dr. Kat. She doesn't know she's coming yet. Call us, Kat.

Emily:

We'll work out logistics later. We're going to get a busy signal.

Dani:

It's Dani and Emily again. Forget it. Eszter, if anybody would like to get a hold of you, what's the best way for folks to reach you?

Eszter:

Well, best way to reach me is through any of my social media accounts, Golden Tears Therapy, or my email, Eszter@goldentearstherapy.com. But Eszter spelled differently. So–

Dani:

Spell it for us. Let's hear it.

Eszter:

It's E-S-Z-T-E-R. That's how you spell it in Hungarian.

Emily:

Eszter, I want to thank you for joining us today on the pod, especially because this is your first week that your kid is back in school. And so you have carved out very sacred time to tell us your story and to talk to us about perinatal mental health. And we appreciate it.

Dani:

Thank you.

Eszter:

Thank you so much for having me.

Dani:

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time and, well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

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Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
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Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host